[Jordan Wall]

What are some of the worst cases of golf architecture on a golf course that might have had some potential?










Example (perhaps?):

[Glenn Spencer]

JW,

Yeah, that would be a good example, but is that a real course?

[Ari Techner]

The best example that i can come up with is Bay Harbor in Petosky MI.  This is a heck of a piece of property right on Lake Michigan and the 3 nines they created do not make for any kind of great golf course.  With a different plan and maybe a different designed the place could have been REALLY special.  

[Glenn Spencer]

Ari,

Great Post!! I have never seen it or played it and I am sure that I share your opinion.   I almost forgot, my perpetual nominee, #8 at Longaberger.

[wsmorrison]

Glen,

Though I've never played it, mostly due to pictures similar to the one posted above, that is Stone Harbor GC along the New Jersey shore by Desmond Muirhead.  It has undergone significant revisions.  I think Desmond was having some fun and may have just seen Jaws when he designed that hole.

[TEPaul]

I realize I'm the only one but I believe Stone Harbor should be restored to its original glory---or infamy.  I say that because I believe it defined the outside edge of the spectrum of "difference" in golf architecture. I'm a believer that the wider the spectrum of difference the more vibrant the art form will be.

[Brad Klein]

TEP, good call -- restore Stoned Harbor. I still show slides of that par-3 as the paradigm of 1980s excess.

I'm not sure that site had any "potential," but it became a brillaint example of building something that has nothing to do with golf and everything to do with indulgent artsy-ness.

[Doug Ralston]

Hmm;

Now; how could I have anticipated that this topic would be used to attack Art Hills some more?

Since Bay Harbor seems to get great reviews by everyone NOT on GCA, it seems clear to me that " ******** would have done better" is the ONLY arguement I will hear about it. Unproved and unprovable!

But by all means, let's 'get Art Hills' some more.

At least Glenn makes some specific arguements about courses like Longaberger and Shaker Run, so one can at least judge for oneself. I find the non-specific complaints about Bay Harbor too 'politically correct' here to appreciate.

I will say that Kearney Hill; the Dye course in Lexington, is too single themed for my taste. Practically every hole is defended by ugly rough. Hit fairways and it's not very special. In Kentucky many hold it in high esteem, but I DO feel it is because of who designed it more than the result. But to be honest, I would NOT call it a disaster, just mediocre for a usually better designer.

Doug

[Doug Ralston]

BTW Glenn;

We recently played Shaker Run. What exactly IS your problem with #6 on Lakeside? Art makes nice use of a tree to partially defend the green, making a left side approach more desirable. But if you are good at 'high ball', that tree can be cleared entirely. Was the tree your objection, or did I miss the point?

Doug

[TEPaul]

"I still show slides of that par-3 as the paradigm of 1980s excess."

Bradley:

Here's a question for you that I absolutely demand you answer honestly;

What was a bigger stylistic disaster---Stone Harbor GC or the Leisure Suit?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The dumming down of Sitwell Park.

[RJ_Daley]

The first version of Hazeltine was not greeted with accolades.  Although it did spawn some of the funniest golf architecture quips ever...

[Adam Clayman]

RJ, How many holes at Hazeltine were changed after that opening?

I don't agree that Desmond's works should be classified as disasters. He did after all design those holes knowing the critic couldn't handle the truth.

Real disasters are those were the designs were meant to be acceptable and somehow were just not carried off, at all.

Other examples of disasters are when the maintenance doesn't match the design. Or, is that criminal?

Jordan, Better define disaster.

[Brad Klein]

Leisure suit lines were simpler -- more like streamlined casual wear.

Stone Harbor requred imagination, verve, madness, considerable quantities of epic Greek mythology for imagineering those tees. I think Stoned Harbor gets the nod. It's the only golf course I know where you don't need a caddie; you need a sherpa who can double as a literary critic to read the ruins.

[Eric Franzen]

The site for Trump National LA has potential for a pretty good nine hole course - minus one or two waterfalls. The current routing feels way to crammed.

[TEPaul]

"Leisure suit lines were simpler -- more like streamlined casual wear.

Stone Harbor requred imagination, verve, madness, considerable quantities of epic Greek mythology for imagineering those tees. I think Stoned Harbor gets the nod. It's the only golf course I know where you don't need a caddie; you need a sherpa who can double as a literary critic to read the ruins."

Bradley:

Well, I don't agree with you. I think the Leisure Suit was a much bigger stylistic disaster than Stoned Harbor GC.

And I know what your problem is in agreeing with me. You owned a bunch of Leisure Suits, didn't you? Come on, admit it, I know you did. You used to have a bunch of leisure suits, some shiny white shoes and a slightly longer mop-like haircut, didn't you? I know you did and there's got to be a photograph of you to that effect around somewhere. If I find it I'm posting it on here.

[Jon Spaulding]

I would nominate Orange County as eligible for FEMA help......

There are a few places that escaped, but not very many.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Disaster - a sudden calamitous event bringing great damage, loss, or destruction; broadly : a sudden or great misfortune or failure

The only one I know of is the hole that fell in the pacific ocean.

There is the landslide at the Valley Club - but I think that turned out quite cool.

Where is Paula Abdul when you need her?
I think this topic is bound to create negative discussions.

[Kalen Braley]

Come on now...

Those polyester leisure suits were da' bomb.  What other clothes can you buy that don't wrinkle, won't rip, can't get holes in them, and comes with a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty.

Ahhh.....the good old days..

[Ken Moum]

Come on now...

Those polyester leisure suits were da' bomb.  What other clothes can you buy that don't wrinkle, won't rip, can't get holes in them, and comes with a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty.

Ahhh.....the good old days..

As an almost-60-year-old, I can only say they pilled like you wouldn't believe, were hot in the summer and cold in the winter, and were insanely flammable.

That said, I wish my pair of off-white "golf slacks" with a lime-green windowpane plaid were still around, they'd be ideal for playing retro golf.....

LOL

K

[Doug Ralston]

What IS all this 'suit' talk?

From down yonder where I come from, a pair of sneakers and gym shorts was 'real man' gear.

Over-pampered wusses!  

Doug

[Ryan Crago]

What are some of the worst cases of golf architecture on a golf course that might have had some potential?

sounds like sandpines bait Jordan...

[Jordan Wall]

What are some of the worst cases of golf architecture on a golf course that might have had some potential?

sounds like sandpines bait Jordan...

No comment.

[Jeff_Brauer]

For some architects, wouldn't it be any course that doesn't make someone's best new list, and thereby affecting their marketing efforts for the next few years?

Truly, wouldn't the least acclaimed course of any gca be a disaster for him, at least if on an upward career path?

Or for an owner, hiring a signature gca at great design and construction expense and getting ho hum reviews?

[cary lichtenstein]

Just think of all the courses you have played, been terribly dissappointed and wondered why you wasted the day playing that course and/or all the courses you had enough after 9 or 12 holes and drove in and/or when you got to the 6 tee, you looked at the scorecard to see what hole you were on and thought, "shit, this is going to be one long day"

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