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david h. carroll

  • Karma: +0/-0
cascades/greenbrier pricing
« on: May 01, 2007, 11:05:24 AM »
I'm heading down to the area thursday and just called to arrange for some tee times.  In passing, I asked what the greens fees were at the Cascades....the reply was "walking or cart?"  I replied, "walking".  "$275"....are you kidding me?  Old White at the Greenbrier is not much better at $225.  Unreal.

This is where the game is going wrong.

wsmorrison

Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2007, 11:11:14 AM »
I am not allowed to discuss this because I am a Flynnophile  ;D

If I was allowed to discuss, I might ask if these are the green fees as a non-guest of the resort or if part of a package.  If I wasn't a Flynnophile, I might mention that both courses just underwent restorations or renovations and that may be a part of the issue.  Hey, at least it isn't $450 as for Pebble Beach  :-\  ;)

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2007, 11:14:48 AM »
Pebble is now $475.

Mike Hoak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2007, 11:19:57 AM »
I am relatively certain that the prices quotes above are for non-hotel guests.  The Homestead actually has somewhat "reasonable" packages available for mid-week stays.  I'm taking my father down there tomorrow for his 60th birthday.

wsmorrison

Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2007, 11:21:54 AM »
Ouch, that's a lot of money, Greg.  I would never pay that much for non-private golf.  I think half of that is too much.  Package deals might help considerably.  If you are not a guest of the resort, I think they ought to charge more, but there comes a point where you reach a limit depending upon income/net wealth or sensibilities.

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2007, 11:27:18 AM »
And Sunningdale's day ticket is now 235GBP - well over $450 - but at least you can take a pull cart.

This is such a continuing issue here - how does someone who can't pay or justify paying $400 get exposed to high quality golf courses? It's a rhetorical question but I'm just left shaking my head.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2007, 11:27:25 AM »
Ouch, that's a lot of money, Greg.  I would never pay that much for non-private golf.  I think half of that is too much.  Package deals might help considerably.  If you are not a guest of the resort, I think they ought to charge more, but there comes a point where you reach a limit depending upon income/net wealth or sensibilities.

Presumably this would mean you would pay $475 for private golf.
At $475 for a round of golf, Pebble is private golf limited to those few that will pay that. Admittedly that is a lot larger number of players than your typical private club, but it is a private group that excludes you Wayne.  :D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2007, 11:27:51 AM »
Add it up and that's about $28,000,000 annual revenue from one 18 hole golf course.

david h. carroll

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2007, 11:29:34 AM »
packages start at $550, so i see no benefit.  

wsmorrison

Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2007, 11:40:53 AM »
Garland,

Actually I didn't intend my comment to mean that I would pay that for private golf.  I don't care if it is an NGLA, Shinnecock, Cypress, Indian Creek, whatever.  I would never pay that much to play golf.  
However, I do belong to a private club and if I thought about how much it was to belong and divide by the number of rounds, it might well be around the levels we are discussing.  That's why I tell my wife I have to play more and more golf  ;)  So I actually meant to refer to a membership at one's own private club could be justified.  After all, there's a lot more to such a membership than golf; well, hopefully so...and I don't mean tennis, swimming, skeet and squash.  I also mean fellowship, food and friendly competition.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 11:43:10 AM by Wayne Morrison »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2007, 12:22:00 PM »
I think Pebble uses its name to command that kind of green fee.  I used to think it was the once-in-a-lifetime marketing ploy, but with how many rounds they get, its hard to fathom there are that many first timers to the course....but I could be factually mistaken on this one.   ;D

The most I've payed for a round of golf was Pac Dunes in Peak Season, and i thought it was worth every penny.  That being said when I go back, it won't be peak season.  :(
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 12:22:33 PM by Kalen Braley »

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2007, 01:22:12 PM »
I'm heading down to the area thursday and just called to arrange for some tee times.  In passing, I asked what the greens fees were at the Cascades....the reply was "walking or cart?"  I replied, "walking".  "$275"....are you kidding me?  Old White at the Greenbrier is not much better at $225.  Unreal.

This is where the game is going wrong.

We stayed there and I think we paid $175 last year at Greenbriar and about the same at Cascades. Old White was an excellent renovation and well worth it, so was Cascades as well as their steakhouse
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2007, 01:31:29 PM »
The common reaction to these very high greens fees is - "supply & demand".  (No further explanation or discussion needed.)

Yet, St. Andrews could double the rate on the Old Course tomorrow and still fill every available tee time.

Why does St. Andrews view "supply and demand" as only part of the equation in coming up with its fees?  Why does St. Andrews appreciate that a round of golf on The Old Course should try to remain at somewhat of a reasonable rate so that all golfers can take a crack at her?

(And this is ignoring the great local rates, which are likely required due to the course is on public land.)

So, why do Pebble Beach and it like get off so easy in charging exorbitant fees just because of "supply and demand"?  Why not hold Pebble Beach accountable to also protect the interest of the not so rich golfer?

[What a great topic on May Day/Labour Day.]
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Mike Hoak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2007, 02:21:38 PM »
Bill,
St. Andrews is an outlier because its more like a municipal course than a private (for-profit) entity.  From an economic standpoint, it only needs to make enough money to support itself.  Pebble Beach and others have to generate profits.  Ueberroth, Eastwood, Palmer, et al did not spend that kind of cash to break even every year.  I have to fess up that I played Pebble last year, but it was on someone else's dime.  I assume that much of the play at Pebble is once-in-a-lifetime players or those on corporate expense accounts.    

Wayne,
You wisely point out that those of us with a membership at private clubs likely pay as much per-round as these higher end resorts are charging.  I played my first round of the year in March and the first question my wife asked me when I got home "How was that $1,000 round of golf?"  This coming from someone who would gladly drop even more than that on a handbag if she knew her husband wouldn't hit the roof.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2007, 02:37:33 PM »
Several hundred million reasons why Pebble could not be held to the same standard as... as any other golf facility. ROI.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2007, 02:43:31 PM »
DC -

The golf packages are not much better. When my family went to the Greenbrier the golf was over $200 a head and we had 4 foursomes playing. Crazy stuff. They are certainly courses I enjoy playing more than once to fully understand them, but it is tough to justify that kind of outlay. I will tell you this, they are A LOT LESS than Sea Island. A lot.
Mr Hurricane

david h. carroll

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2007, 03:14:34 PM »
But Jimmy, did YOU have to pay? ;)

the really unfortunate thing is that I've probably played the Upper Cascades more than 20 times and I was really looking forward to seeing the fruits of the research and work so many here on this site contributed to its restoration.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:cascades/greenbrier pricing
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2007, 04:09:45 PM »
For the many years I have been going to The Greenbrier, yes, I had to pay too.
Mr Hurricane