I can't believe there isn't already an uproar over these new Golf Digest Rankings, with Medniah Number 3 coming in @ #11. However, I'd rather focus my attention on the NY rankings, and their general lack of upstate courses.  The list:

1. Shinnecock Hills G.C. Southampton
2. Winged Foot G.C. (West) Mamaroneck
3. National G. Links Southampton
4. Fishers Island Club
5. Oak Hill C.C. (East), Rochester
6. Bethpage State Park G. Cse. (Black), Farmingdale
7. Quaker Ridge G.C. Scarsdale
8. Winged Foot G.C. (East) Mamaroneck
9. Garden City G.C.
10. Maidstone Club East Hampton
11. Hudson National G.C. Croton-on-Hudson
12. Piping Rock Club, Locust Valley
13. Friar's Head G.C., Baiting Hollow
14. C.C. of Rochester, Rochester
15. The Creek Club, Locust Valley
16. Atlantic G.C. Bridgehampton
17. Deepdale G.C., Manhasset
18. Meadow Brook Club, Jericho
20. Century C.C., Purchase
21. Sleepy Hollow Club, Scarborough-on-Hudson
22. Trump National G.C., Briarcliff Manor
23. Crag Burn G.C., East Aurora
24. Westchester C.C. (West), Rye
25. Branton Woods G.C., Hopewell Junction
26. Manhattan Woods G.C., West Nyack
27. Saratoga National G.C., Saratoga
28. Shenendoah G.C., Verona
29. Atunyote G.C., Verona
30. The G.C. of Purchase, Purchase

I loved seeing CC of Rochester in the 14 spot, with its new restoration making it a dynamite choice.  I missed Oak Hill's West Course, which was here at 15th last time but is now gone.  Others from the upstate that could be added:

Teugega
CC of Buffalo
Mill Creek
Monroe
Brook Lea
Greystone

These certainly beat out the likes of Trump National, Century, Atunyote, GC of Purchase, Manhattan Woods, and Saratoga National.  Saratoga Nat'l, as I understand it, is an immaculately conditioned course that has a terrible routing/design from Rulewich (along with an awful name).

Courses already on the list that could move up:
Garden City
Maidstone (these two courses get shafted for their length)
Friar's Head
Westchester (West)
Crag Burn (a fantastic RTJ course in Buffalo, worthy of a top 15 position)

Courses that could move down:
Each of numbers 5-8 (although probably in the right order).
Hudson National (bigtime)

A couple big ones missing:
FENWAY
APAWAMIS

I can't believe there isn't already an uproar over these new Golf Digest Rankings, with Medniah Number 3 coming in @ #11. However, I'd rather focus my attention on the NY rankings, and their general lack of upstate courses.  The list:

1. Shinnecock Hills G.C. Southampton
2. Winged Foot G.C. (West) Mamaroneck
3. National G. Links Southampton
4. Fishers Island Club
5. Oak Hill C.C. (East), Rochester
6. Bethpage State Park G. Cse. (Black), Farmingdale
7. Quaker Ridge G.C. Scarsdale
8. Winged Foot G.C. (East) Mamaroneck
9. Garden City G.C.
10. Maidstone Club East Hampton
11. Hudson National G.C. Croton-on-Hudson
12. Piping Rock Club, Locust Valley
13. Friar's Head G.C., Baiting Hollow
14. C.C. of Rochester, Rochester
15. The Creek Club, Locust Valley
16. Atlantic G.C. Bridgehampton
17. Deepdale G.C., Manhasset
18. Meadow Brook Club, Jericho
20. Century C.C., Purchase
21. Sleepy Hollow Club, Scarborough-on-Hudson
22. Trump National G.C., Briarcliff Manor
23. Crag Burn G.C., East Aurora
24. Westchester C.C. (West), Rye
25. Branton Woods G.C., Hopewell Junction
26. Manhattan Woods G.C., West Nyack
27. Saratoga National G.C., Saratoga
28. Shenendoah G.C., Verona
29. Atunyote G.C., Verona
30. The G.C. of Purchase, Purchase

I loved seeing CC of Rochester in the 14 spot, with its new restoration making it a dynamite choice.  I missed Oak Hill's West Course, which was here at 15th last time but is now gone.  Others from the upstate that could be added:

Teugega
CC of Buffalo
Mill Creek
Monroe
Brook Lea
Greystone

These certainly beat out the likes of Trump National, Century, Atunyote, GC of Purchase, Manhattan Woods, and Saratoga National.  Saratoga Nat'l, as I understand it, is an immaculately conditioned course that has a terrible routing/design from Rulewich (along with an awful name).

Courses already on the list that could move up:
Garden City
Maidstone (these two courses get shafted for their length)
Friar's Head
Westchester (West)
Crag Burn (a fantastic RTJ course in Buffalo, worthy of a top 15 position)

Courses that could move down:
Each of numbers 5-8 (although probably in the right order).
Hudson National (bigtime)

A couple big ones missing:
FENWAY
APAWAMIS

Add to the missing list (and ahead of many of your upstate additions, save for Olde Kinderhook):

Wykagyl
Metropolis
Engineers
Laurel Links
Westhampton
Maybe even Bethpage Red

Trump, Branton Woods, Saratoga, Manhattan Woods clearly don't belong. Craig Burn, although very nice, doesn't crack the top 15. Sorry for the downstate bias, but it is very deserved with the Long Island and Westchester concentrations. Hate to say it, but having played all those courses, save for CC of Rochester, I'd have Bethpage Black, Friars Head and WFE all ahead of Oak Hill.

Wayne Morrison, you are probably correct about this list.  Saratoga National is certainly second-hand reputation for me, mostly because I don't see the value in going to play the course.  A couple I mentioned from upstate don't fit on the list especially Greystone, but others could make a good bid.

I haven't played courses like Olde Kinderhook or Wykagyl, but I'm sure they deserve a spot or two.

I wish the raters focused more on the entire state rather than the downstate.  Downstate is considered superior mostly because it is well-known, but it certainly has a higher concentration of great courses than upstate.  But hidden gems like CC of Buffalo, Oak Hill (West), Teugega, and even Mill Creek (a public course in Rochester that I enjoy very much) certainly deserve a look.

With all that said, based on Golfweek's ranking of Friar's Head, it is much too low, and probably deserves to be ahead of Oak Hill.

So it should be in the top 100 courses in the country, no?

Monroe GC in Rochester is one of my favorites and indeed worthy of a spot on the list.  It strikes the difficult balance of being a very enjoyable course while also a good test of golf.  I think that Oak Hill East is about 5 or 6 spots too high.

John_Foley:

I'm not sure why you see Monroe as better than CCR.  Have you seen CCR after the restoration? Before Gil Hanse's work, Monroe was much better, but after, CCR might contend for the best course in Rochester, even better than the East Course.  There is no way Monroe beats either OHCC course except maybe in proper conditioning.

The thing people should remember about Monroe is that, although it's generally very good, it has three original greensites, and the first three holes on both nines are generally weak in design features.  Number 1 is an awful starting hole and impossible to forget.  I like Monroe a lot, but it is not better than OHE, OHW, CCR, CCB, or Teugega.

JNC Lyon:

As someone quite familiar with the courses in The Empire State I will say this for starters -- Olde Kinderhook certainly deserves a place in the top 25. It's omission is a testament to the inability of people to believe that quality golf of that high an order would be just outside Albany of all places.

Where would I cut?

For starters -- dump Manhattan Woods and GC at Purchase. Both are fine layouts but the bar in NY State is sooooo high and they don't merit consideration even if you could add an  all-star listing of holes from BOTH COURSES.

Fenway also needs to be added.

While I do like Deepdale, Century and Branton Woods -- neither can touch the qualities Fenway possesses.

In regards to your initial point -- there are very few upstate courses -- define by me as being beyond the immediate NYC metro area -- worthy of inclusion. It's not that a few of them aren't very good -- it's that the depth of courses in the metro area is that much stronger and there are a few, as you and others have pointed out, not included too.

One final thing -- Saratoga National is a wonderful effort by Roger Rulewich on a very demanding site inhabited by numerous wetlands that he deftly either included or routed around. I can say that from having played it several times -- a few during various trips to the area during race season. It's clearly not everyone's cup of tea, and while it would not make my personal top 25, it's still one of the very best public courses you can play in The Empire State.

And before someone decides to beat me up -- I have already offered my mea culpa on The Bridge previously.

Clearly, Sebonack has not been added because it was not voted upon given its early age but it too would be a member of my personal top ten in NY. With such an inclusion the bar for golf in the state only becomes more and more demanding.

One final comment -- the only sure fire public layout to merit inclusion is BB - the rest are simply unable to crack such an elite grouping IMHO.

Matt Ward, Check out CC of Rochester, CC of Buffalo, and Teugega for some great, if shorter, upstate gems.  I know you are a fan of Cobblestone Creek, and I find all of these courses to be better than Cobblestone.

Slapper,

I'd agree, Trump and Manhattan Woods don't belong.....  by a long shot.

Oak Hill, post Fazio changes, is questionable at that rank.

Some have mentioned clubs such as Fenway, Westhampton, Engineers and others which were left off.  I wonder where those clubs are slotted beyond # 30 ?

Philip Young: What??

Without ever having played any course in New York I would place it around 11ish.

Absolutely classic.

Phil Young -

I guess global warming is one of those things you can't joke about!

JNC Lyon:

You have a very good memory -- I do like Cobblestone Creek but not enough to elevate it to a top 25 position in NY.

I haev played Oak Hill / East on a few occasions when big time events have been played there and frankly I always scratch my head on just what all the fuss is about concerning the layout. Architecturally speaking I just don't see how the layout even sniffs the top ten in NY. I would assess Oak Hill / East as the Baltusrol of The Empire State. No doubt the contributions to the game's history is there but I don't see the totality of the existing architecture as being anything really unique or compelling.

I have played CC of Rochester & Buffalo but it's been a good bit of time since I've played them and I need to return when time permits. Nonetheless, you need to keep this squarely in mind. While there are a number of layouts in the metro NYC area that are overrated because of being nearby to other deserving layouts -- there are quite a few other courses (some of which I already named) that need to be included as well.

John K.

I have always opined that Maidstone - save for the beach dunes oriented holes (e.g. 9th, etc, etc) - is a good bit overrated IMHO. The opening stretch is quite pedestrian and the finish while a bit better is not anywhere close to what a top 100 or top 10 layout in NY should be for me.

Sebonack is simply tour de force type stuff -- and will only garner more deserved praise when the work is finished on the "new" 16th. Just my opinion and preference.

Bill V:

You raise an excellent point on state lists. They are truly ignorant in so many ways. I look at the Digest Jersey listing and don't see such courses as Essex County and Forsgate but do see such layouts as Shadow Isle (Colts Neck) and the new Neshanic Valley -- a fine public layout but would not sniff the top 40 given the Garden State's solid depth in the private sector. Too often -- people simply elevate what they play on a given visit and really don't have a clue on the totality that exists.

Tom D:

Whippoorwill is also a worthy contender and could possibly grab a final five position. Frankly, the totality of what is in Westchester County alone would be better than you see in half of the state's in the nation. And, I'm likely being conservative with that number too.

Matt Ward,

While I only played two of the three nines, Neshanic Valley was a big disappointment, given all the hype it received.