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John Kavanaugh

Which is the most storied course in America?
« on: March 28, 2007, 03:51:22 PM »
I was just invited down to Pinehurst #2 to celebrate its 100th year and I noticed they call themselves the most storied course in the nation.  I agree that it is up there but not the course that would come to mind if asked.  So I ask you.

Pinehurst really needed Tiger to win the 05 Open...They would have already cast the statue.
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JESII

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2007, 03:53:18 PM »
If not Augusta, then it's Pebble...no?


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Gene Greco

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2007, 03:56:32 PM »
    Augusta National......no other even a close second.
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"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

John Kavanaugh

Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2007, 04:00:39 PM »
Pinehurst gives this time line on the invite.

1907 - Opens
1918 - Walter Hagen wins North & South Am
1920 - Francis Ouiment wins North & South Am
1936 - Danny Shute wins PGA
1940 - Ben Hogan wins North & South Open
1947 - Babe wins Womens N&S
1951 - Ryder Cup US wins
1959 - Jack wins North & South Am
1999 - Payne Stewart wins US Open
2005 - Michael Cambell wins US Open
2007 - Pinehurst Centennial

I'm wondering based on the above if Pinehurst is even top 5.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 04:02:09 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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Phil McDade

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 04:08:26 PM »
Merion East, and not because CB Macdonald had a hand in designing it....

The most significant event in American golf history (in terms of reverberating through the national conscience) took place at Merion -- in 1930, on the 11th green. I think there is a plaque there. It far, far overshadows any other golfing event in terms of national interest.

Add in Hogan's comeback, and its longtime ties to important USGA events, and I think it stands out.

Augusta National is second; TCC at Brookline (the site of the 2nd most important event in American golf history, nearly 100 years ago) is third.

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wsmorrison

Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 04:09:25 PM »
Augusta National hosts a major every year.  Every great professional player and quite a few amateurs from the 1930s onward have played there.  It is hard to argue against that course if we are limiting our discussion to America.

If not Augusta National, I would have to say Merion East.  There have been more USGA championship events there than any other club.  Within an eight year span (2005-2013) Merion will have hosted the US Amateur, the Walker Cup and the US Open, for its 19th USGA championship:

1904,1909,1926,1949 Women's Amateur
1916,1924,1930,1966,1989,2005 Men's Amateur
1934,1950,1971,1981,2013 US Open
1954 Curtis Cup
1960 Eisenhower Trophy
1998 Girl's Junior
2009 Walker Cup

The 1930 Amateur and 1950 Open are among the finest championship tournaments in American golf.

Why do you say Pebble, Jim?
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David Stamm

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 04:16:11 PM »
I would strongly lean towards Merion as well. Jones completing the Slam there as well as the course that is shown in the most famous photo in golf (Hogan's 1 iron) as well as other events makes that course a very, very special place. I would actually pick TCC second. The significance of what Ouimet accomplished in 1913 boggles the mind. That event alone secures it's place in my mind. AGNC would obviously be right up there and I would also mention Oakmont.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 04:17:15 PM by David Stamm »
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

wsmorrison

Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 04:20:06 PM »
Shinnecock Hills ought to be considered as well.
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JESII

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 04:22:17 PM »
Quote from: Wayne Morrison on March 28, 2007, 04:09:25 PM

Why do you say Pebble, Jim?


Just wondering if I could rile a few feathers here in Merionland...

I'd say you stated your case pretty clearly though...

You should be on the golf course...
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Bob_Huntley

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2007, 04:24:20 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 28, 2007, 03:51:22 PM
I was just invited down to Pinehurst #2 to celebrate its 100th year and I noticed they call themselves the most storied course in the nation.  I agree that it is up there but not the course that would come to mind if asked.  So I ask you.


Storied: having an interesting history : celebrated in story or history <a storied institution>

I have to agree with Gene Greco.

I should imagine that in the days since the Masters was first televised, something like a billion people have seen images of Augusta.  No matter who won what or where, Augusta is the "Most storied."


Bob








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wsmorrison

Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2007, 04:25:09 PM »
Jim,

I am forced to work  :P  The party is now over, I'm afraid.  I am now hoping for a winning lottery ticket.  However, I was on the driving range with Sue for a bit during my lunch break today.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 04:26:18 PM by Wayne Morrison »
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2007, 04:26:12 PM »
What's the definition of "storied?"  If it's notoriety, Augusta National wins hands down.  If you asked this question to all 25 million golfers in this country, Augusta National would get 60% of the vote at a minimum.
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SPDB

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2007, 04:28:48 PM »
If Augusta is out of the equation, I think its Brookline. The combination of Ouimet and the Ryder Cup and the improbability of both events gives it the edge.
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David Stamm

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2007, 04:29:27 PM »
Quote from: Phil Benedict on March 28, 2007, 04:26:12 PM
What's the definition of "storied?"  If it's notoriety, Augusta National wins hands down.  If you asked this question to all 25 million golfers in this country, Augusta National would get 60% of the vote at a minimum.

AGNC is definitely the most recognized. Would AGNC be AGNC if Jones had not accomplished what he had set out to do and win the Slam, which culminated with the win at Merion?
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Steve Burrows

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2007, 04:32:58 PM »
I would also say Augusta is the most storied, but will add that I don't think that it is the greatest individual story to be told (obviously I'm splitting hairs here).  It is the most storied course in the fact that it has the most stories to tell; there is a internationally contested and televised event held there every year for the past seven decades.  Well known actions and stories have simply been given the greatest opportunity to arise, more so than almost any other course, at least.  

Likewise, Stephen King has told more stories than F.Scott Fitzgerald, but Fitzgerald's stories are better (this example is, of course, wildly subjective and argumentative).

I'd say that Brookline has allowed for a better story.  They club tends to stay quiter, but the effects of the Open in 1913 on American golf can never be understated, nor can the emotion of the 1999 Ryder Cup.
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...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2007, 04:36:40 PM »
You could ask the same kind question about paintings and propose all sorts of possibilities but at the end of the day the Mona Lisa would be the one.

Augusta National is the Mona Lisa of golf courses whether you like it or not.
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David Stamm

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2007, 04:43:55 PM »
Quote from: Phil Benedict on March 28, 2007, 04:36:40 PM


Augusta National is the Mona Lisa of golf courses whether you like it or not.

Easy Phil. I was just posing a question to ponder.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

john_stiles

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2007, 04:54:23 PM »
Agreed.

ANGC, with many modern 'majors',  is most storied.

Why ?      ANGC is most 'storied' because I am seen many, many stories about ANGC.  Whether newspaper, magazine, book, or TV, ANGC has had 'oh so' many 'stories' written about her.

Close seconds would be Merion  (USGA events plus 1930)
and Oakmont (USGA events).

Merion is actually #2 in my opinion.

Pinehurst is in top 10.
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JMorgan

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2007, 04:58:21 PM »
Q: Do you think Augusta would be as "storied" without television?
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Gary Slatter

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2007, 04:59:16 PM »
Augusta National is the most storied by far, even people who only know the name of one golfer (Tiger Woods) know about Augusta.  There are other more storied courses for amateur golf but Augusta for public knowledge, professional golf and green.
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

John Kavanaugh

Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2007, 04:59:22 PM »
The Pinehurst invite goes on to say..."There's no better way to celebrate the course that's held more championships than any other in the country than with your own round on Pinehurst No. 2."

I thought Baltusrol has held the most USGA Championships.
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Gary Slatter

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2007, 04:59:53 PM »
Quote from: James Morgan on March 28, 2007, 04:58:21 PM
Q: Do you think Augusta would be as "storied" without television?
yes
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Phil Benedict

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2007, 05:00:37 PM »
I actually think the real question is which course is #2.  Take Augusta out of the equation and then there's a real debate to be had.  It's unfair to compare other courses to a place that holds a major every year.

Jones and Hogan make a pretty compelling case for Merion.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2007, 05:10:17 PM »
At the time of Baltusrol's centennial in 1995 it had blown Merion out of the water for championship history.  A short list:

1901 Women's Amateur
1903 US Open
1904 Men's Amateur
1911 Women's Amateur
1915 US Open
1926 Men's Amateur
1936 US Open
1946 Men's Amateur
1954 US Open
1961 Women's Open
1967 US Open
1980 US Open
1985 Women's Open
1993 US Open

Clearly the best 100 year run in golf excluding the Master's tournament.
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Which is the most storied course in America?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2007, 05:20:43 PM »
JK's case for Baltusrol is pretty compelling.  Seven US Open's plus a PGA that Phil won with a birdie on the 72nd hole.  Two Opens won by Jack in record-setting fashion, including the "Jack is back" Open.  For sentimental value the '80 Open is up there with Hogan at Merion in '50.
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