could be fun at oakmont, if firm at fast, the ball would roll all over the place, too long on 1,10,12,15, who knows where it would stop

"Shinnecock could play great if set up that way"

This was probably covered in 2004, but any ideas about why it wasn't set up that way the last time?

Thanks
Peter

"Shinnecock could play great if set up that way"

This was probably covered in 2004, but any ideas about why it wasn't set up that way the last time?

Thanks
Peter

I don't think the USGA leaves the fairways for its Open courses more than 30 yards wide no matter where they are, do they?

I agree with them, and have defended their model on here more than once. At the US Open level the only way to guarantee a challenge to the player's driving is with narrow fairways. With today's driving distances and spinning irons, wedges and balls, there is no way to hide a pin from a US Open player if they are in the fairway. Hence, you are not able to test a top players driving simply by placing the hole in a corner of the green that can only be accessed from a narrow specific position in the fairway. Some people (most people) on here feel this creates boring golf, I don't disagree with that, and I think with very fortunate weather conditions Shinnecock could produce the kind of golf so many on here would love to see the top guys play. That's where the guarantee[/i] falls short...the weather.

but I wonder if a 50 yard fairway might be another thing entirely, i.e. maybe "really wide" would play differently than just "wide".

If you mean to suggest that a 50 yard wide fairway might bring other challenges into the game that might be less on 30 or 40 yard fairways...I think you're right...so long as the ground is real firm, which obviously cannot be guaranteed. When you prep for real firm and get real soft your course gets killed. When you prep for soft (ie: make the course as difficult as possible from the outset) and difficult natural conditions direct you to ease up the course you have something like Shinnecock in 2004.

Yes!

Sadly, yes. Although, to an extent, I understand why.

Sahne

judging by the comments from the NE USA guys (the wet summer golfers) it might be high risk at the NE traditional courses due to the liklihood of 'hit and stick'.  Might be more of a chance on the west coast weather wise, if the courses have the necessary width.

Wouldn't Pebble Beach be wonderful with wider fairways and no greenside rough?  A firm course should be reasonably likely in 'summer' in Monterey, shouldn't it?  Might be a few long recovery shots being played though.

In June, the average high is 67 and the average low is 50, with those figures being a little lower during the U.S. Open dates.

In addition, fog, and the air, laden with moisture from the sea don't create the conditions you envision.[/color]

Shane,

I would Imagine that BPB, WFW and BL could be widened a good deal, but, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

As JSlonis indicated, the model is established.

Even the British Open has taken to narrowing their fairways, sometimes, considerably.

What about Oakmont? The fairway bunkering looks solid enough and the small raised greens would be arguably tougher with shaved surrounds. Of course, firm greens are the key.

Patrick

My experience is that the critical issue for firm greens and fairways is precipitation, not temperature.  It may be that Monterey has mild summer weather, possibly with high relative humidity.  But, does it rain?  My understanding is that there is negligible rain in May and June in this area (I could be wrong, as I have only visited for the odd day in summer).  The weather forecasts certainly say that for San Francisco.

If I am right, then Monterey (and any other North Californian coastal courses) would be prime candidates for 'firm and fast'.  All that is needed is control of the pump house.  Turf shouldn't be lost to heat stress in a NorCal summer, should it?

James B

How hot it is in NorCal just all depends where you are.  If you are near the ocean, it doesn't get too hot.  But once you go inland just a bit, temps can easily get into the 100s.  This is the case in San Jose, Dublin/Pleasanton area, and the Concord area.  To note, San Fran is only a 40 minute drive from San Sose, (without traffic).

This isn't going to happen but I was talking with George Bahto this morning about Old MacDonald in Bandon and telling him that I wished they would put in a set of tees at 7300 or more yards if only for very occasional play.  

Now that place is going to be big and bold.  It will be wide and have WIND.  

I'd love to see the best players under those conditions and with the old strategies and templates at their best.

James,
   Patrick is right about the moisture in summer. Bob Huntley could answer this best, but in general the fall is the most glorious weather with the least fog/moisture, at least up here in the Bay Area.
   See you next month.