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Dan Moore

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I thought I'd follow the last aerial up with a more substantial course by another of the Midwest's unsung architects from the Golden Age.  Like Langford a very good player in his day though better than Langford.  Special bonus for identyfying why this is the President's Day edition.  

« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 06:56:00 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2007, 10:35:26 PM »
I'll guess its Sunset Ridge, because I remember that sixth hole up in the corner as having a wide FW, but narrowing so you couldn't use it.

Have no clue why its Presidents day, unless I am wrong and this course is in Lincoln Park.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2007, 11:42:19 PM »
Let me guess the presidential connection. Because:
... Sunset Ridge had to beat the Bushes for an architect?
... they said Nixon another 18 holes?
... they had to Fillmore of a swamp than they thought?
... Wilson gave everyone free clubs?
... there was a goose named Garfield on the pond?
I dunno.
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Trey Kemp

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2007, 12:27:10 AM »
It is Sunset Ridge Country Club.  I know that William Diddle was the original designer and Rick Jacobson completed the redesign about a year and a half ago.  I have pictures of the changes if anyone would like to see.
twitter.com/TreyKempGCA

Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2007, 12:37:00 AM »
Let me guess the presidential connection. Because:
... Sunset Ridge had to beat the Bushes for an architect?
... they said Nixon another 18 holes?
... they had to Fillmore of a swamp than they thought?
... Wilson gave everyone free clubs?
... there was a goose named Garfield on the pond?
I dunno.

a) Because we wish the President would ride into the Sunset?
b) Because Jeff Brauer could have called him Mr. President?  
c) Because I don't have to work tommorow?
d) All of the above?
e) None of the above?

Mr. T please post photos.  I have heard very good things about the work Jacobson did there.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Trey Kemp

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2007, 01:18:11 AM »
Here are a few before and after pics:



Hole #8 - This short par 3 is one of my favorite changes on the course.  The beach bunker is gone the new bunker style added.



Hole #15 - This par 3 had a dramatic change as well.  The wall in front of the green was taken out and replaced with a stacked stone wall.  The green was shifted a little bit and the bunkers were redone and one was even added on the back left of the green.



Hole #17 - This hole shows how dramatic the bunker changes were.  

I will search around to see if I have any more pictures.  Hope you enjoy these!
twitter.com/TreyKempGCA

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2007, 08:01:46 AM »
Good to see Rick kept some of the original mounding behind 17 green while enhancing the bunkers.

BTW, Killian did a master plan there in 83 right after the split with Nugent, headed by yours truly. The only thing I did before splitting myself was a fw bunker on 18, although the 8th (beach bunker) and 15th (wall) looks like it might have been redone by Killian as well.

Don't mean to take this OT but I recognized the 6th hole immediately and always look for ops to do similar holes - with a very wide fw that only allows you to hit the middle for a shot at the green.  However, when I have proposed such a hole, I am told I am "nuts" (and maybe thats just an excuse to do so ;)) to build fw that is useless to the player.  Anyone agree?

This hole and the 7th at McHenry CC where trees blocked the green unless your tee shot was on the far left of the fw always influenced me.  That and 7 at Medinah 2 course, with its narrow funnel of trees.

Now that I see No. 6 in aerial view, it strikes me that maybe Diddel ran out of property, or somehow recommended that little notch of property be bought for 6 green and 7 tee, doesn't it?

Dan, thanks for posting more Chicago memories, just for me, I suspect!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 08:03:20 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom Roewer

Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2007, 08:06:10 AM »
Please assure me that the fellow in the forefront of #15 (before shot) is fishing and not kanoodling or something far worse.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2007, 09:32:06 AM »
Here's another question - on the "old 15th" (which may date to Ken Killian (or maybe Roger Packard since it looks like a Medinah Par 3 he did) circa 1985.  In either case, I doubt Langford used steel retaining walls)) look at the back right bunker.

Do you believe the grass capes came down further than show 20 years later in the pic?

If so, how long do we think it might take for Rick Jacobsens lovely bunkers to evolve back to "blobs"?  Or, are superintendents and clubs more attuned to architecture now than they were 20 years ago?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2007, 09:59:26 AM »
A link to Ron Kern's website and information about Bill Diddel.

Ron calls him one of America's great golf architects.  A pretty amazing list of accomplishments.  

http://www.ronkerngolfarch.com/bildidas.html
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2007, 10:11:22 AM »
I have had the pleasure or doing some work on Diddels 1950 Wichita CC and have gained immense respect for his work.  The background on Ron's website appears to be a Diddel Green Detail.  

I think his work was influenced by Maxwell, but was toned down a bit. More of his contours came in from the edge of the green, but it seems rare that he placed the "muffins" in the green.  Maybe as a good player, he felt the internal contours weren't "fair?"

At WCC, he had one wild green with a cluster of five bunkers. It was quite out of character with the rest of the holes, but I felt he was either experimeting, or actually liked to do one or two different greens for variety.  When we redid the bunkers, the club opted for "consistency" and we still joke about it today, but I was dissapointed to not rebuild that bunker cluster.

I also noticed on his plans how he varied the distance fw bunkers were placed from the tee.  As short as 200-220 into the prevailing Kansas wind and as much as 270 on downwind holes.

I have often wondered if he was the originator of the "diddle bump". ;)

That, as Forrest (Gump, not Richardson) might say, is all I have to say about Bill Diddel......

BTW, Ron needs to update his link to ASGCA, since we just relaunched the new ASGCA site, and his link no longer works.  I suppose I could call him direct but I bet he reads this!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

RJ_Daley

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2007, 10:30:31 AM »
A little more info on the project and Jacobson...
http://www.golfbusinesswire.com/2006_articles/104196
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

tlavin

Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2007, 10:37:48 AM »
Jacobson sort of flies under the radar, but he really did a nice job of dressing up what had become a tired layout.  His bunkering work seems particularly skillful to me.  There are shared bunkers on side-by-each par 4's on the course and they look like they belong, not like some architectural affectation...

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2007, 11:32:50 AM »
From RJ's link, I found this interesting:

"Originally designed in 1924 by the prolific William H. Diddel and renovated a short time later by Charles Wagstaff"

I wonder if the course was originally shorter, and they added/extended my favorite sixth hole later to get to a par 72?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff Doerr

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2007, 11:59:48 AM »
Dan,

Great post! It inspired history, restoration, design, strategy and images...

Can you guys point out the sixth for me? Is it the one in the upper left of the aerial?

Trey, the before/after images are great. I bet the members are very pleased. Anything else you can add would be truly enjoyed.

Jeff, do you have examples of holes you've done that follow what you see on the sixth hole?

Thanks to all!
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2007, 06:09:54 PM »
Here are the hole numbers on the routing and a current day google aerial.  

The correct answer as to why this was the President's Day aerial was B.  Bill Diddel was President of ASGCA serving several different terms.  



 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

RJ_Daley

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Re:Chicago Aerial: President's Day Edition
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2007, 06:19:01 PM »
Quote
...why this was the President's Day aerial was B.  Bill Diddel was President of ASGCA ...

Dan, recognizing the overall significance of the day, rumor has it that the MUZAK has been playing Ruffles and Flourishes, and Hail to the Chief, all day in Brauer's office. ;) ::) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Trey Kemp

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Here are a few more pictures that I found that I thought you guys might be interested in.  


Hole #6 - Before (This picture is right before the renovation started.  Notice they are clearing trees on the right side of the green.  They were so dense that the green only got an hour or 2 or sun per day.)


Hole #6 - After (This picture was take a little closer to the green than the previous picture. Also in this picture you can see how Rick squared off the corners of the greens.  This was done throughout the project on all of the greens.)


Hole #9 & Clubhouse (Along with the renovation of the golf course the clubhouse was totally renovated.  This picture shows what the new clubhouse looks like with the 9th green in the foreground.)
twitter.com/TreyKempGCA

Trey Kemp

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Okay last one, I promise.  I wanted to post it because Terry mentioned the shared bunkers between two holes.  This is a bird's eye view of what he is talking about.

twitter.com/TreyKempGCA

Dan Moore

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Trey,

Thanks for the photos (never too many) and welcome to the site.  I sense some connection to Rick Jacobson.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Trey Kemp

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Dan-

You are right, I actually worked for Rick for about 2 years and was fortunate enought to be involved a little bit with the Sunset Ridge project.  I have other photos of courses in the area, but wanted to get some of the projects done by Rick and Doug out there first.  Maybe I can follow up with some of my pics from Chicago Golf Club or Shoreacres.  By the way thanks for all of the aerial's of Chicago courses.  Its been fun seeing them.
twitter.com/TreyKempGCA

Andy Hughes

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Quote
Don't mean to take this OT but I recognized the 6th hole immediately and always look for ops to do similar holes - with a very wide fw that only allows you to hit the middle for a shot at the green.  However, when I have proposed such a hole, I am told I am "nuts" (and maybe thats just an excuse to do so ) to build fw that is useless to the player.  Anyone agree?

Jeff, seems reasonable to me. Years ago, I know HarborTown had places where a ball in the fairway would not have a clear shot to the green.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Dan Moore

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I have a new aerial which shows the course in 1998-99 before Rick Jacobson's work.  I have resized everything to be close to the same size.  On the color google aerial I marked where bunkers are different from the 1939 version.  Yellow is a bunker that nle, red is a newly added bunker.  

The loss of width and addition of trees is notable.  In many cases the lost bunkers were already nle in 1998-99.  A number of new fairway bunkers were added, no doubt to combat length.  The bunkers in 1939 seemed to have much more definition than what was there in 98-99.  

It looks like the swimming pool in the backyard on 7 at the very top was an original design element.

1939


1998-99


2007 Google red=new bunker  yellow=bunker nle


"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jeff Doerr

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Looks like a very standard process - bunkers and water hazards got bigger over the first 50 years. Then during the redesign the bunkers migrated down the fairway to stay in play!
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dan, the CIA or NSA needs you for spy satellite work. Well done! ;) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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