[Donnie Beck]

What are your thoughts on this?

[ed_getka]

I don't understand why ANY course needs laser-leveled tees. In 30 years of golf I have only stood on a handful of tees that were noticeably tilted. More courses should have sand to fill divots on the teebox, instead of worrying about how level a tee is.

[Andrew Hastie]

Personally I like tee's as flat as possible.
However I can understand why some people like a bit of roll on the tee to help them to work the ball and of course it helps with drainage.
Last thing you want is a hanging lie on the tee.Some tee's are that bad.

[wsmorrison]

Donnie,

I think they look terribly out of place.  My old club (1926 Flynn) added some new tees a few years ago and they were laser leveled.  Were they built correctly?  Yes?  Were they in harmony with the rest of the golf course?  Absolutely not, especially the ones that were built several feet (to too many feet) above grade.  That kind of geometry looks especially bad on a course whose architect strove for a sense of naturalism.  Nothing else could defeat the intent more, except cart paths.

My new club (1912 Wilson/Flynn (two heads were better than one)) has beautiful tees (just watch which way some of them are pointing!).  Now, tees are not the reason I changed clubs, but it is noticeably different.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Laser leveled tees need not be raised above native ground nor do they have to be level as the plane can be tilted a bit for drainage. Like just about everything having to do with architecture, done right they're great, done poorly they look out of place. I see nothing wrong with a nice place to tee the ball.

[wsmorrison]

Don, what if all the other tees on the course have a different look?  Shouldn't there be a similar look so as not to stand out?  If bunkers were being added or a green redone, I would hope they would have a similar look as well.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Wayne,
Do you mean all the rest of the tees have a noticeable crown?
You could always laser level the center and then feather out the edges if you wished.
I'll tell you this; some sort of leveling device is going to be used when a new tee is built. So, whether it’s attached with a magnet to a blade or a receiver on a stick, when the tee is built a laser will probably be involved. All I'm saying is you can get a level place to tee the ball and still get tees that fit in if you hire the right people.

[Brian Phillips]

How a tee looks has nothing to do with the equipment used to level it.  It is up to the Architect or Super. to ensure that a tee fits what is already there.

Laser levelling is just another tool. When used correctly it helps speed up the process.  

Don't blame the messenger (the laser) blame the Sender (the Architect).  If the tee does not look right then the drawings are wrong and/or the Architect has signed off on something he or she should not have done.

[Mike_Young]

I say laser level the tees anytime you can......most i have seen have a slope to them of 1 or 2 %.  And most will never notice. JMO

[JESII]

Hey W,

If memory serves (which is no guarantee), you've still got a little right-to-left kick with your driver, no?


I like low-profile, consistent shape (whatever the shape, make it the same on every hole), level tees...considering what Don M says, if they're using something, might as well use the best thing...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Donnie - Mucci did this exact thread before and colorized the heck out of it, so watch out for flying colors! He INSISTED that tees never settle.  INSISTED, imagine that.

I guess somehow tees are different from any other geographic feature on earth.

W Vostinak,

Could you cite where I stated that tees NEVER settle ?

If not, it's another example of your not getting your facts right and distorting what was said, or, your another case of your memory being faulty and inaccurate.

Obviously a POORLY built tee will settle.
But, well built tees don't settle to the point where it's noticeable.

Donnie,

I'd laser them.

As Mike Young stated a 1 % to 2 % grade is sufficient.
I can't think of ONE negative to lasering them from an agronomic or playing perspective.

Wayne Morrison,

Lasering a tee doesn't change its look.
I don't know why you would feel that way.
The only thing lasering does is give you a consistent tee surface.  What's wrong with that ?

[wsmorrison]

I realize that a laser level is only a tool, but it is how the tool tends to be used that I have a problem with.  The tees often (not always) come out looking too perfect.  Too square, too level and too man-made.  If the new tees look out of character, even if eminently playable, it doesn't fit.  When a design disconnect occurs, I think that is bad.  Modern and machined juxtaposed with crafted and weathered looks silly and not well considered.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayne,

I don't know how that's possible

The tee's footpad and base determine its configuration.

Lasering it only flattens the surface of the tee, and has NO effect on the dimensions or configuration of the tee,  UNLESS, that's ANOTHER intent of the project

[wsmorrison]

Maybe I've just seen some really bad ones that tend to look like truncated pyramids such as at RGGC.  I do agree that the process doesn't have to look bad.  When it does look out of place with the rest of the tees on a classic course, it really can look bad.

[Adam Clayman]

The aspect I regard as the worst...
 The whining from some of the pedantic know-it-alls about the unevenness of the pre lasered.

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
You might have just seen some bad ones.  You can laser level any surface.  It can be square, round, oval, at grade or above grade,....it doesn't matter.  The problem is not the tool, if anything it is the user of the tool.  The key is getting some surface drainage on tees and as others have said, that only takes a very slight slope that most golfers would not even notice.  

[Mike_Young]

I really don't see how laser leveling tees has anything to do with the shaping or the surrounds of a tee.  The tee could be multi level, circular, square or however you wish....the laser only flattens the surface of the tee to the slope and degree you dial in....

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

Thanks, but I am fully aware of everything you said.  Nothing I have said should lead you to believe otherwise.  I understand you can laser any surface and it has nothing to do with square, round, oval, drainage, slope etc.  I am not a child nor is the concept a difficult one.  You sound rather patronizing.

Mike,

It is because on old golf courses, where existing tees are not lasered and perfectly cornered but rather show irregularities, signs of age and a hand-crafted look that the new tees or rebuilt tees look DIFFERENT and OUT OF PLACE.  That's all.  

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
You said:

"I think they look terribly out of place."  

Mike said the same thing I did - the laser process has nothing to do with being for example "perfectly cornered" as you called it.   You can use a string to make perfect corners if you want.  You don't need a laser.  

I would have bet that Flynn would have used laser leveling (were it available) for work especially on his greens as he was very precise with how he wanted them constructed and didn't seem to leave much to chance (or to the whims of his construction supervisors).  Laser leveling would have helped him greatly don't you think?  

[JESII]

For the ignorant...why would an architect use a laser leveler on a green?

[Joe Hancock]

For the ignorant...why would an architect use a laser leveler on a green?

One would use a laser transit to shoot grades to ensure that things are draining properly, and to determine the grades of the contours...not to "level" anything.

The level/transit is a tool to determine elevations. However, there are pieces of equipment that, with the help of lasers, automatically adjust to create a perfectly level or perfectly planed surface. And, to make things even more automated, there are systems which guide the earthmoving equipment via GPS to make sure the operators recreate exactly what has been loaded into the computer according to the technologically advanced architects plan.

Joe

[JESII]

Thanks Joe,

Sounds like we'll be completely disposable pretty soon...then we can really waste some time on here...

[Joe Hancock]

Sully,

I should have added that much of the new technology is shunned by purists.....

Joe

[Peter Pallotta]

JES II

I think I'm one of those (er...um...ignorant ones). I don't think I even understand your question. Is the laser leveler sometimes used on greens?  If so, why would anyone want that (golf not being a game of perfect)?

Thanks
Peter
(edit: just saw Joe's post)

[JESII]

Peter, read Mark's post right before my question, and then read Joe's answer to my question...I'm just here to help, a facilitator you might say, trying to hook up the question and the answer is all...


Joe,

Are there any of those "purists" left? After Kavanaugh came on here barking about his "ride around" of one of those Western courses with Tommy Nac, one can only wonder if Moriarty will be swinging a nanotech shaft this year...

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