I'm currently having a disagreement/contrary philosophical viewpoint  with someone who seems to believe that reverse slope greens - i.e. front to back - are best served by being approached with short irons.

I don't follow this line of logic at all.

Does anyone else?

I think they work perfectly well with long iron/wood approaches because running the ball in is always a fine test of judgement that, in part, allows longer hitters to match it with shorter hitters.

Thoughts?

I think reverse slope greens are great because they demand a high degree of ball control. It really doesn't much matter to me if the ball is on the ground or in the air, so long as the player knows what the ball is going to do he/she should be OK....and it's a bit different from the norm.

I don't think the original redan can be reached with a short iron and it is one of the great par 3's in the world.

Quote from: RichMacafee on February 01, 2007, 12:28:41 AM

I've got no problem with them as long as the green is accessible from the front.

If the green is too raised at the front, or has a severe dip short of the green (or rough), it doesn't work IMO.

So Rich, where do you stand on the 17th at KH then?

And you must never have been to Macrihanish.  The 12th there is a fantastic hole, with a front to back sloping green and a severe upslope/dip in front of it.

It's a short par five that an 8 time club champion should be able to dine out on with a mid iron second.   :

I have grown to love the challenge of the 17th at KH, after initially not liking the hole much at all. I love the imagination required, and the fact that there are 2-3 options of how to play the shot every time you play the hole. I do believe you have to play it a lot to get to know all the subtleties of it though, and I understand why some believe there is a lot of luck involved. Once you know the contours, there is actually very little luck involved at all.

I am a huge fan of front-back sloping greens, I wish there were more of them. The challenge of the approach shot on 3W at Royal Melbourne is one of my favourite shots on the course, even though it is generally from 80-110m only. Do you think that green would work well on a 400m hole? I'm pretty convinced it wouldn't.

I've played a lot of golf in the UK, but sadly Macrihanish was one that I missed. It is on an ever growing 'to do' list for when I get back there. Would the green on the 12th work so well if the hole was a 410m par 4?

Basically, I love these type of greens, but feel there needs to be an option to come in from short if it is a long approach. It doesn't have to be a flat or easy option, but it needs to be there.

No way. One of the best uses of them can be at the end of a reachable par 5.

In my opinion, when golf started to try to fit golf architecture into all these little "formulae" or "standardizations" was just about the time really exciting golf architecture began to lose its way.

I think that began to happen in the 1920s to be honest with you. The reason that happened is also most interesting, and is perhaps one of the best subjects that ever could be discussed on this website. I think it was a fundamental shift far more than any of us realize, and the reason for it was really fundamental.

NO,

GCGC has two reverse sloped greens.

# 10 which can require a long approach and # 13 which usually requires a short approach.

The beauty of the LONG approach is the potential for being long, which is diminished on a short approach.

Theoretically, being below the pin (long) is desired on reverse greens, but, being too long can be troublesome.

When a reverse green has trouble behind the green, this presents an interesting dilema because the golfer wants to be long, but, not too long.  That's fairly easy to achieve with a short shot and much more difficult to acheive with a long shot, which makes the long shot far more interesting and challenging.

Reverse greens lose some of their charm and challenge as the approach shot gets shorter.

My vote would be for an intermediate to long approach as the best way to maximize the interest and challenge.

Anthony
The pin is rotated through all parts of the green just like a regular one! When it is up the front you still have a choice of laying up short of the bunker and pitching over or carrying the bunker with your second. I also did a reverse slope green about 6 or 7 years ago on the par 5 15th at Fleurieu Golf Club at Mt Compass south of Adelaide. Works well there too.

Reverse slope greens are meant for all clubs, except in the case of the fronting bunker that has to be carried to allow your ball to roll onto the green (like Neil's example). 15m doesn't sound like much to work with unless you had a midiron or less.
   James Bennett saw a great example at Plainfield with #7 par 4, where the green falls away to back left.
   
Patrick,
   Isn't #3 at GCGC working away from you also?