[TEPaul]

Don't laugh, I mean that seriously. It's a legitimate question.

I have no idea if it's probable, possible or practical or not but if not why not?

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Very flat courses would probably fit your quest.

TOC might qualify.

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Absolutely, it's possible.  

However, it won't be as good as the same course that also "looks good".  

So, why would you want to?

[John Nixon]

I've never heard Carnoustie described as beautiful or good-looking. I've often heard it described as really good.

[BCrosby]

Do you mean a flat, browned out course bounded by factories, an airport and warehouses? How about adding a busy commuter train that runs along one side and dumpy B&B's and apartment complexes on two other sides?

That's Prestwick the last time I was there. I loved it.

Bob

[Mark Pearce]

On another recent thread I recall Seaton Carew being described as golf on the set of Bladerunner and I don't think that was meant as a compliment to its industrial setting.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm also not sure anyone would describe Hoylake as good looking but it's a very, very fine golf course.

[Mike Hendren]

No.

Mike

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Add Royal Lytham to the list.

I'd also add The Old Course, but I will be shot for such an outrageous thought.  I still think it is fabulous and utterly great.

[George Pazin]

Guess it depends on what one thinks looks good.

The photos of almost all of the above courses mentioned look flat out gorgeous to me. Then again, so does Oakmont, so what do I know?

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

Methinks this thread was inspired by the open, flattish, boring look of the 12th at Rustic, and possibly the original 4th which was as visually exciting as Angela Lansbury, but also with similar depth of character and subtle grace.

[TEPaul]

"So, why would you want to?"

Jeremy:

Why would I want to?

It's very simple actually. It's because I am just completely curious, fixated would probably be more like it, how in God's Little Green Earth we can EVER get this total reliance on the part of everyone on some of landscape architecture's "principles" out of golf course architecture where I feel it does not need to belong in every and all cases. I want to debrief and brainwash this fixation on looks out of as many golfers as I possibly can until I reach something in the neighborhood of my own comfort zone in my Big World theory.

You know what they say: "It's not that important if it looks good, it's much more important that it just feels good."



"Tom,

Methinks this thread was inspired by the open, flattish, boring look of the 12th at Rustic, and possibly the original 4th which was as visually exciting as Angela Lansbury, but also with similar depth of character and subtle grace."

No, Mike, it was not. It was inspired by something I'm working on now. There are a few landforms that do not look good and frankly I doubt there is anything possible that could ever be done to make them look good. So I was thinking about what all to do about that.

My first inclination is to simply slap a total copy of Riviera's #10 on one of them but to do it in mirror image. In my book Riv's #10 does not exactly look good and never has. It's basically just a flat open pretty boring landform but the hole is one of the golf architectural wonders of the world, in my book.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

Methinks this thread was inspired by the open, flattish, boring look of the 12th at Rustic, and possibly the original 4th which was as visually exciting as Angela Lansbury, but also with similar depth of character and subtle grace.

Hey Careful now Mike, thats dangerous waters

Ms. Lansbury is smoking hot!!!  

[ForkaB]

So that's what you mean, Tommy!  I'm on board.

And, while we're at it, what does it really mean to "tie in" golf course features to the external environment, and even if we (think we) know, is this actually important to GCA or is it yet another form of eye-candy foist upon us by wannabe landscape architects masquerading as GCAs?

[BCrosby]

Tom -

Couldn't agree more that landscape architecture needs to be kept separate from gca. Two entirely different disciplines. Neither necessarily involves the other.

(BTW, the Cousins book they use at the HSD course takes the opposite view. It sees gca as a sub-discipline of LA. I think that is wrong. What's going on, I suspect, it that they are trying to find a way to give gca the standing it needs to be taught in academia.)

I too think one of the biggest confusions about gca is that because some great courses are pretty, people conclude that all great course must be pretty.

Bob

[Dan Kelly]

Tom,

Methinks this thread was inspired by the open, flattish, boring look of the 12th at Rustic, and possibly the original 4th which was as visually exciting as Angela Lansbury, but also with similar depth of character and subtle grace.

To each his own!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

Methinks this thread was inspired by the open, flattish, boring look of the 12th at Rustic, and possibly the original 4th which was as visually exciting as Angela Lansbury, but also with similar depth of character and subtle grace.

To each his own!

You know, Dan...I only know Ms. Lansbury from her matronly "Murder, She Wrote" role and when I wrote that I figured some wiseguy would probably know that she was a complete fox in her younger years and call me on it.

However, if you can also tell me that Barbara Bush was smokin' when she was young, I think I'll just go away quietly, head hanging low...

[BCrosby]

Dan - Is that really a young Angela Lansbury? Wow.

Bob

[Matthew Hunt]

What about Oakmont?

[TEPaul]

"Tom -
Couldn't agree more that landscape architecture needs to be kept separate from gca. Two entirely different disciplines. Neither necessarily involves the other."

Bob:

Do you really think so? Do you really mean that? If so, how far back do you think we need to go, as historians anyway, to begin to determine just how and why so many people began to think otherwise?


Richard the Magnificent:

I will deal with you and your post later. You never cease to amaze me, you bright little duck---you just sort of hang out there somewhere watching from a distance and then something good and philosophical pops up and you come swooping in there like an eagle on the kill or on the make. You're amazing. Bright, bright, bright!

Has your great little daughter even remotely figured you out yet?


If there are golf courses that look like those shots of Landsbury in those snapshots, just let me play them when they first open and I'll be glad to give 'em up for the rest of time. Apparently sometimes maturity sucks but can that ever be said about a golf course in all ways?

But I'll tell you one I would kill to have seen when it popped right out of the box never again to reach that zenith. Cypress Point---there is no question about it. Why could it not have remainded as it was then? That's another great question for another time and place.

[Mike_Cirba]

Ms. Lansbury again.

I'll never watch Murder She Wrote in the same way.



And now, as I slink away in total shame...  

[Dan Kelly]

Ms. Lansbury again.

I'll never watch Murder She Wrote in the same way.



And now, as I slink away in total shame...  

That's OK, Mike.

You probably looked better when you were younger, too.

I wonder: Is that ever true of golf courses? Is it usually true? If it is, what does it mean?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom P. and Mark R.:

Reminds me of Jim Murray's comical observation of Lytham and St. Anne's during his first visit; something about the look of the course reminding him of a vacant lot in Cleveland.

One of the best!

[Mike_Cirba]

That's OK, Mike.

You probably looked better when you were younger, too.

ain't that the truth...

[tlavin]

We've been chatting up Riviera in another thread and it occurs to me that from the first fairway to the seventeenth green, the golf course is visually banal, mainly due to the flatness of the terrain.  There are some barrancas that break up the visual monotony and one can look up to the houses at the top of the bowl, but it is otherwise visually vanilla.  And a spectacular design.

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