[Mike Nuzzo]

We often talk about how very few golfers know who designed their own course, let alone who Bill Coore is...

What % of the general US population knows of Donald Ross?

[JESII]

3% - 5%

Does first guess win or do I need to prove my numbers?

In all seriosness Mike, what is the follow up question?

[A.G._Crockett]

Of the GENERAL population?  It wouldn't be 1%.

Of the golfing population?  A much tougher call, but far, far lower than we on GCA would imagine.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Of the GENERAL population?  It wouldn't be 1%.

Based on 300 million, I would still say much lower. It would depend on when, where and how you ask the question, but I would guess 500,000 people would know the answer to "Who is Donald Ross?" if posed in a non-golf related survey. If the survey was related to golf, it might double or triple.

[rjsimper]

Of the general population?  I would say less than 1%

Of golfers who play more than 2x/year (probably the line at where I'd call someone a "golfer")  I bet it used to be a small number (3-5%) but that number has grown tremendously in the last 10 years.

I think pre-1999 and CERTAINLY pre-2005, the number of non-GCA types to know Donald Ross would be tiny...especially out west where the name Ted Robinson is 10x more likely to be recognized than Donald Ross.

Since the US Open at the 'hurst in 99, Ross has become more of a known name in the average golfer's household.  The knowledge that event bestowed upon the average golfer was no doubt eclipsed by all of the media hype leading up to the 2005 US Open, given the success of the 1999 event, has since probably doubled (a guess, of course) Ross's name recognition among the lay-golfer in America.  

[Jon Wiggett]

Donald who?

Just kidding! I think it would be less than 0.1%. Hell, I've met people in Alabama who didn't know who the president was. Oh, what blissful ignorance.

[David Stamm]

I agree w/ Ryan. Ted Rob is more likely to be recognized than Donald Ross in So Cal.

I will say this though, when I talk to golfers that are not into GCA, about 5% or less know who Mackenzie is and when I tell them he designed ANGC, they say I'm mistaken becuase it's Jones and they have never even heard of Mack. And this is the most watched tournament in the country.

I would venture to guess that RTJ would be the most recognized architect amongst the general pop. (not saying much) and the golfing population (not saying much more).

[Mike Nuzzo]

I was corresponding with a distant cousin.
She found my website and asked what the horseshoe meant.
Here is what I told her besides that is was an upside down N:

It relates to the old fashioned methodes to build courses with horses and there are some famous greens that were artfully shaped like a horseshoe.

I also threw in that Donald Ross used a horseshoe in his cleek marks - which I found while looking for different horseshoe shapes.

She isn't a golfer, but for some reason I assumed she would know of Ross.
Of course she didn't, probably no one knows of Donald Ross.

So my guess has been amended to very, very low.
She knew who Arnold Palmer was and mentioned there was a Palmer course nearby.

What % of the non-golfing population know of Tiger Woods?

[Ryan Farrow]

I would say Pete Dye has to rank pretty high. More than likely higher than RTJ.

[Jon Wiggett]

David,

I grew up in the Leeds area in the UK. Here, he had a high profile in the general golfing public, there was always talk about if a green was a Mackenzie green. Outside golfing circles I doubt anybody had heard of him.

[rjsimper]

Tiger Woods?  40% of the US Population over the age of 10.

[RJ_Daley]

Mike, you have got to start watching Jay Leno, "Jaywalking".  There are people that think that Germany won the "war between the states".  If Donald Ross wasn't the lead in a rock band, he has no chance of recognition in this culture...  

[Jim_Kennedy]

I think the Masters gets the highest rating/share of any golf telecast and if I'm not mistaken each point = 1 mil. TV sets tuned to a particular channel.
I've seen a Masters telecast at 13%, so if the Opens held at Pinehurst generated an 8 that's a lot of people, at least 8 mil.(even if only one person is watching) hearing Ross' name.  

Tiger's is a household name. I've read that he has over 93% name recognition in the U.S. alone.  
   

[JeffTodd]

I'll also say much less than 1%. I have a personal anecdote. My wife, who is no dummy but not a golfer, was doing work for the Pocono Manor in PA. They were pitching to get one of the slot gaming licenses that are all the rage in PA these days. She told me of the plans they had to renovate the old hotel, and she excitedly added that a new course was to be constructed. I asked her if she knew who was going to be doing the design and she replied, "I think.......Donald Ross?"

I had to break the bad news of his passing to her. Thankfully she took it quite well.

[wsmorrison]

I don't know how many in the general population would know, well under 1%, probably somewhere between .05 and .2% which is about 1000 times greater than those that have ever heard of William Flynn.

Jeff,

The course your wife was referring to is credited to Ross but his course was substantiall redesigned and added to by Flynn to create an 18-hole course.  See what I mean  

[JeffTodd]

Jeff,

The course your wife was referring to is credited to Ross but his course was substantiall redesigned and added to by Flynn to create an 18-hole course.  See what I mean  

Wayne, I'm aware of that now, but I certainly wouldn't have known it (and didn't know it) when I played Pocono Manor a few years ago. They go out of their way to mention Ross yet they are conspicuously silent about Flynn's hand in the course history. Can't the same be said of Ross vs. Hugh Wilson at Seaview Bay?

About Pocono Manor, the one shot holes on the front nine are the quirkiest pairing of par 3's I've ever seen. Do you know the pedigree of those two holes?

[Matthew Hunt]

Tiger Woods?  40% of the US Population over the age of 10.

He is the most "reconised" person in the world.

[wsmorrison]

Jeff,

I have a copy of the May 1915 The American Golfer that mentions Ross,

"Seaview has called in Donald Ross to build traps, and his ideas, together with those of Wilfred Reid, should stiffen the Absecon course considerably."

Seems that Wilson (likely with Flynn's assistance) and Reid were tossed in the historical dustbin in favor of Ross.  Certainly the routing is the backbone of any design and influenced the placing of the hazards.  It should be considered a Wilson design, unless Ross redesigned the course rather than added traps.

As for Pocono Manor, We know that Flynn designed at least ten holes, the current holes 7-16 which correspond to Flynn's holes 3-12 resulting in an 18 hole course.  I wouldn't be surprised if he redesigned the existing holes.

As for quirk, it sure characterizes the steeply downhill 3rd hole.  It is 77 yards today and was 115 yards in Flynn's plan.  Does that mean it was a completely blind shot?  I'm not sure.

[RJ_Daley]

Jeff Todd, thanks for the most funny story of the day on GCA.com!  

[Tom_Doak]

Here's another way to look at it:

There are 400 Ross courses.  Let's say for argument's sake that each of them has 250 members, plus 250 wives and maybe 250 children, and that all of those people have heard of Ross.  That's 300,000 people right there, or 1% of the population.

I would therefore guess the number is around 1% of the U.S. population, maybe a bit less or more.  (I'm sure a lot of the kids don't know the name, but then a lot of brothers-in-law of members do.)

[PThomas]

Mike, you have got to start watching Jay Leno, "Jaywalking".  There are people that think that Germany won the "war between the states".  If Donald Ross wasn't the lead in a rock band, he has no chance of recognition in this culture...  

saw some other show  - not Leno - where they were asking people if they could identify the lady in the picture (Nancy Pelosi)...1st two said they didn't know...then the last said "Nancy Reagan"

[Michael Moore]

Tom Doak -

I may never get this opportunity again.

You are off by an order of magnitude.

[Craig Sweet]

Less than 1/2 of 1%

[JESII]

Mike,

How is Tom's logic so flawed?

[JeffTodd]

As for quirk, it sure characterizes the steeply downhill 3rd hole.  It is 77 yards today and was 115 yards in Flynn's plan.  Does that mean it was a completely blind shot?  I'm not sure.

Wayne, thanks for the info. I'm guessing that 115 yards would have put the teeing ground where the road is today. In my mind's eye that would have meant a completely blind shot into the abyss, and an utterly terrifying one at that.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()