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Robert Thompson

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Worst erosion cases in links golf
« on: December 18, 2006, 02:37:34 PM »
What are the worst cases of erosion GCA types have seen on famous or well-known golf courses? In Canada, Crowbush Cove lost a dune in a storm, and obviously Montrose and Dornoch have significant problems, as do Pebble and Cypress. What other courses do people know that have had real issues they've dealt with or are dealing with?
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Yannick Pilon

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2006, 02:43:23 PM »
Does not apply as links golf, but, didn't Trump National in LA lose its entire eighteenth hole because of a landslide?

They had to rebuild for I don't know how many millions of dollars....  Knowing Trump, it must now be the most expensive hole in the world... ;D

YP
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Jordan Wall

Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2006, 02:47:56 PM »
Quote from: Yannick Pilon on December 18, 2006, 02:43:23 PM
Does not apply as links golf, but, didn't Trump National in LA lose its entire eighteenth hole because of a landslide?

They had to rebuild for I don't know how many millions of dollars....  Knowing Trump, it must now be the most expensive hole in the world... ;D

YP

That hole alone cost $64,000,000 or 64 million dollars to rebuild.

I think the course was 250 million dollars to build...
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 02:48:43 PM by Jordan Wall »
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Brad Tufts

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2006, 02:49:35 PM »
Isn't Royal West Norfolk scheduled for flooding in the next 50-100 years?
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Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2006, 02:51:25 PM »
Rob,

I've been doing research on Stanley Thompson's Green Gables course at PEI. It seems 3-4 of the best holes in Canada were lost only 5-6 years after the course opened, in 1939.

Thompson routed these lost holes through the dunes, just down the coast from Crowbush. As you know, the north shore of Prince Edward Island gets pounded by storms, especially in the winter. The dunes ridge at Green Gables has shifted some 3 kilometres inland since Thompson's original course there opened for play.

I was at Crowbush the past spring, and looked at the massive and expensive operation that was underway to recreate and stabilize the dunes lost there last winter. Too bad they couldn't have done the same at Green Gables in the early 1940s. We'd probably be talking about Green Gables in the same breath as Highlands Links.
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Gary Slatter

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2006, 02:51:55 PM »
Casa de Campo seems to have a hurricane every few years.  Cinnamon Hill in Montego Bay has been a 17 hole course since the 17th hole washed away over a year ago. Although not a well known course I think Rick Baril would agree that it was destined to be one!  The White Witch Course, also in Montego Bay,  is slowly sliding down the mountain and unfortunately a few holes are sliding faster than others.   Is erosian an unexpected drainage problem?  
I think Tallgrass GC in Calgary lost its last few holes last spring.
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JohnV

Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2006, 02:52:07 PM »
Ballybunion has fought erosion on the old course for many years.
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peter_p

Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2006, 04:28:09 PM »
Arcadia Bluffs had a big landslide during construction.
Pebble Beach built a seawall to protect #18 (and 17 green).
Royal Troon has issues along its opening (six?) holes.
Did Kiawah (Ocean) have to relocate #18?
Nefyn & District sinkhole meant buiding eight new holes.

Royal West Norfolk has flooding every day.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 04:32:19 PM by Peter Pittock »
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michael j fay

Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2006, 05:13:17 PM »
Some of the holes on the Ocean course at the Olympic Club have already fallen into the sea, I believe. Their wonderful little par three course is at risk.
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David_Tepper

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2006, 05:22:12 PM »
Michael Fay -

The 4 holes of the Olympic Club Ocean Course built west of Skyline Blvd. in the 1990's were abandoned due to unstable land. I am not sure if you could technically call it coastal erosion, as the land sits on a bluff at least 100 ft. above and 200 yards in from the ocean. The land those holes were built on has not fallen into the sea!    

The par-3 Cliffs Course sits on a similar site. The land under one of the greens on the Cliffs Course did give way several years ago and the green had to be relocated a little further inland.

At this point, saying the course is "at risk" might be a little too dramatic.

DT
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 05:23:45 PM by David_Tepper »
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Tyler Kearns

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2006, 05:45:36 PM »
Robert,

Paul Daley's "Links Golf" dedicates an entire chapter to the issue of coastal erosion and details the methods by which these clubs have remedied the problem. Courses highlighted are; Ballybunion (losing 18,000 sq.ft. of turf in a single 1973 storm), Royal County Down, Royal Portrush, Rosslare, Donegal and Montrose.

TK
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 05:45:49 PM by Tyler Kearns »
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Robert Thompson

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2006, 06:06:57 PM »
Tyler: You da man. Not sure if I own that one, but I'm checking...
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Bill Gayne

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2006, 07:48:31 PM »
I would suggest researching Portrush. The Valley course is below sea level and the fifth hole nearly gave out. Various sources of support including government funding and sale of overseas memberships.
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RJ_Daley

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2006, 07:54:25 PM »
Robert, exactly what are you looking into; stabilization construction techniques and on going maintenance or retardation of erosion programs?  
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Tom Dunne

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2006, 08:34:22 PM »
Rob,

I have a copy of Daley's book, "Links Golf: The Untold Story". Would be glad to send it to you--just say the word.

td
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Gary_K

Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2006, 08:51:18 PM »
This isn't a picture of erosion; can you name the course and the problem?  It hurts me to post a picture like this, but it's interesting to see the challenges that are out there.  RJ, you can't answer right away.  :)

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Tyler Kearns

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2006, 09:19:25 PM »
Gary,

Isn't that the 6th hole at Sutton Bay? I had heard that the course had suffered a couple of these slippages, and as a result had lots of irrigation repairs to make. Does this have anything to do with the drought in the midwest?

TK
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Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2006, 09:44:30 PM »
Rob,

Apparently I've given you to much credit, my friend! I figured there's no doubt you've read, and own Paul D.'s LINKS GOLF. Tyler's right. Reference that text, re links erosion. There's a ton of info. from Paul in that book.  
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Robert Thompson

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2006, 10:32:12 PM »
I think I do own it -- but it isn't in my library at the moment. Shouldn't lend my books out, I guess!
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Ron Farris

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2006, 11:13:42 PM »
Is there anyone out there who was at Deere Run in Moline during construction.  That was quite a battle to get grown in.  I visited the place at the time and it just didn't want to stop raining.  I have lots of pictures, but I was old school at the time and they are on film.
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Bill_McBride

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2006, 11:16:25 PM »
Quote from: Gary_K on December 18, 2006, 08:51:18 PM
This isn't a picture of erosion; can you name the course and the problem?  It hurts me to post a picture like this, but it's interesting to see the challenges that are out there.  RJ, you can't answer right away.  :)



Something very similar happened to the 10th hole at the Valley Club of Montecito years ago.  The land above the fairway slid down on top of the fairway.  The hole is much changed as a result.  Some very awkward lies result in the normal landing area, leading to difficult shots to carry the barranca 170 yards in  front of the green.
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Scott Whitley

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2007, 08:01:38 PM »
North West Golf Club in Co. Donegal has lost significant amounts of their linksland to erosion.  Also Rosslare in the southeast.
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ForkaB

Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2007, 03:30:31 AM »
Scott

This is OT, but what do you know about North West GC?  I've driven by it many times but never played.  Looks interesting enough, but I've never had the time.  Is it worth stopping by next time I'm in the area?

Rich
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Jack_Marr

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2007, 05:32:44 AM »
The opposite is happening in Royal Dublin. Sand is being deposited and the land area is growing. They've hired Donald Steel to build another 9 holes there in 2050.
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John Marr(inan)

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Worst erosion cases in links golf
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2007, 09:09:56 AM »
Sheringham loses parts of its cliffs regularly and it will not be long before its most scenic part has disappeared.  Cliff falls at Nefyn suggest that part of the old course will have to be abandoned in the near future (hence their building spare holes).  Rhyl was a full 18-hole links course of some stature before the war (it held big professional events with the likes of Henry Cotton, the Whitcombes etc) but lost a huge amount to thye sea during the war, then to the sea wall constructed to prevent any more of that happening, and some to holiday homes and leisure facilities for the non-golfing.
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