Another thread prompted me to post this thread. I find it incredible how quick some are to criticize PB and then bring up the cost. While I agree it is outrageously expensive, I don't think that should have a bearing on the feelings one has about the course itself. True, you want to feel like you weren't ripped off, but honestly, who has felt ripped off after playing PB? Anyone? Tell me you don't get a rush when coming up from the South Gate through Carmel and you start getting your first glimpses of the course as you approach the visitors entrance. You get that glimpse after passing the Three Gables house of down to the 6th. Or after leaving the Lone Cypess you round the corner and head towards the Robert Louis Stevenson school and you can see up the 18th through the several hundred year old Cypress. While it's true there are some mediocre holes on the course, I think they stand out because of the spectacular holes that surround them. Not every hole can be 4-10. It always make me wonder why everyone will go out of their way to say "PB was good, but SH is just awesome!" SH is a great course, but come on, who can honestly say that it is superior. I know everyone has their opinions, but that really makes me scratch my head. IMHO, if one has to nitpick PB, than I think that person has become jaded.

"Well, if it didn't have the history....." PB didn't host it's first Open until 1972. The history doesn't have anything to do with grandeur of the course. It adds to it yes, but it would be alluring without it.

"Well, if it was taken away from it's ocean locale......." It is by the ocean! So are other famous courses. What does that have to w/ the design itself. Whether there's water at the bottom of the chasm that seperates the FW from the green on 8 or not, that ball is gone. If there wasn't water doesn't mean it wouldn't be thrilling when your approach soars over it. The ocean is what dictated where the holes were placed!


Well, I'm off my soap box. I just had to vent. I think PB is one of the greatest experiences, not just golf experience, EXPERIENCES of my life. If you've never played it, your cheating yourself of a memory that you will never forget the rest of your life. It truly is memorable. Afterall, isn't that why we play?

David,

On a recent trip to Pacific Dunes as a single, I was paired up with folks from the southeast and Midwest.  Their comments were that PD was a bargain and "just as good" as Pebble Beach.  Yet they had never been to PB.  They were basing their experience solely on cost.  I did a poor job of convincing them otherwise, and left it as you have:  a must play.      

Experience is the key word in your post.  Until you experience PB, there are few courses that have the same beauty and allure.      

I went to Pebble Beach on my honeymoon. The whole experience was one of the highlights of my life. I played the first tee time with 3 American guys. I didn't like the fact that I was almost expected to use a cart - when there's such beautiful scenery all around it's stupid to have your eyes on the road instead.

I'd been on a week trip to Ireland prior to my wedding and I have to say that the old quote that Monterey is the most spectacular place of land meeting sea is wrong. When you've played Tralee, Waterville, and Dooks the week before it does suffer in comparison scenically.

I thought that 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,16, and 18 were excellent and spectacular holes. I was, however, disappointed with the green surrounds - perhaps I expected it to be more linksy with run off areas and opportunity to be creative. If you missed the green, take out the lob wedge and hack out. I also thought the tree in the middle of the 18th fairway was stupid (no prizes for guessing who drove behind it!). It was clearly a top course in beautiful surrounds - there are better but not many.

The highlight was when we checked in after I'd played. We'd told them it was our honeymoon and when we arrived the receptionist said 'this is the best room we've got'. He was wrong, it was not a room but a lodge with outdoor hot tub and patio / dining area 20 yards right of the 18th fairway. Absolutely stunning. I will be eternally grateful to Pebble Beach for that gesture and I would say that everyone has to play it once - especially if you can go on your honeymoon.

while Pebble is a great course, I think PD is a better design

David:

For example, my trip to Pebble was 4 years ago, 3 rounds on Pebble, 1 on Spanish in 4 days.  

This was on the way back from Maui where I played 5 rounds at the Plantation Course in 6 days.  I had a far more enjoyabe experience playing the PC, hit a far more varied set of shots, high, low, bump and run, puch and spin, flop, etc.  Save for the brillo bermuda greens at PC I would have said that it was one of my top 5 favorite courses.  Now with the new surfaced greens I can't wait to get back and if they're less grainey I have to think PC will be near my personal favorite.  

That said, it's everybit as good a course as Pebble, IMO, and it's a far more enjoyable round of golf, a far more undulating terrain, far more majestic setting, far more influenced by the wind, especially if you play one day with the Trade and the next with a Kona, far more ground game, far more thought required off the tee, etc.

My point is that there are great courses out there that lack Pebble's reputation/allure (which is very much a part of marketing) that are as good or better and get no street cred, while Pebble continues to get a free pass for its weak holes.

My suggestion, like they used to say about term vs. whole life insurance . . . play Pacific Dunes and invest the rest!!

Wow.  Many issues here right up my alley, so to speak...

1.  Pebble Beach is a great golf course and CAN be a great golf experience... it is too expensive, it is too crowded, the feel most of the time sucks... so I too believe this colors the view of many.  But if you do get lucky enough to play it uncrowded and gratis, as I did one time, well... you do tend to see the light.  Great is bantered about all too easily here I think... but it's an appropriate adjective to use regarding this golf course.  Jason B. - we will have to agree to disagree.  I've played Kapalua Plantation and yes, it is wonderful.. and yes, it allows for a lot of shots... but please, it's not Pebble Beach.  I too have played a lot of great golf courses and I am here to say Pebble Beach is even GREATER than most people think.  And my assessment takes into account the majesty of the Pacific and the golf history that has occurred there, but I am far from overwhelmed by it - see point 2 for an example of why. So yes, we shall have to agree to disagree.

2. All this being said, while Pebble is indeed fantastic, David I will say Sand Hills is slightly superior in the overall.  But that's no knock on Pebble - Sand Hills just happens to be the best course on the planet.  And Jason, it's nowhere near any ocean and has zero historic tradition.  

3.  "Pebble is a great course, PD is a better design"  Paul, you have some 'splainin to do.  That makes zero sense on the face of things....

4.  Adrian S.:  you and I are on different golf planets.  6 is boring?  3 is not well defined?  14 you dislike?  17 is disappointing?  11 can be on any resort?  Whoa. OK, I can live with the course not meeting expectations - but man that is well.... let's just say I disagree with each assessment.

TH

Guys, perhaps I should've spelled it out. SH is Spyglass Hill. I've never played Sand Hills.

Another thread prompted me to post this thread. I find it incredible how quick some are to criticize PB and then bring up the cost. While I agree it is outrageously expensive, I don't think that should have a bearing on the feelings one has about the course itself. True, you want to feel like you weren't ripped off, but honestly, who has felt ripped off after playing PB? Anyone? Tell me you don't get a rush when coming up from the South Gate through Carmel and you start getting your first glimpses of the course as you approach the visitors entrance. You get that glimpse after passing the Three Gables house of down to the 6th. Or after leaving the Lone Cypess you round the corner and head towards the Robert Louis Stevenson school and you can see up the 18th through the several hundred year old Cypress. While it's true there are some mediocre holes on the course, I think they stand out because of the spectacular holes that surround them. Not every hole can be 4-10. It always make me wonder why everyone will go out of their way to say "PB was good, but SH is just awesome!" SH is a great course, but come on, who can honestly say that it is superior. I know everyone has their opinions, but that really makes me scratch my head. IMHO, if one has to nitpick PB, than I think that person has become jaded.

"Well, if it didn't have the history....." PB didn't host it's first Open until 1972. The history doesn't have anything to do with grandeur of the course. It adds to it yes, but it would be alluring without it.

"Well, if it was taken away from it's ocean locale......." It is by the ocean! So are other famous courses. What does that have to w/ the design itself. Whether there's water at the bottom of the chasm that seperates the FW from the green on 8 or not, that ball is gone. If there wasn't water doesn't mean it wouldn't be thrilling when your approach soars over it. The ocean is what dictated where the holes were placed!


Well, I'm off my soap box. I just had to vent. I think PB is one of the greatest experiences, not just golf experience, EXPERIENCES of my life. If you've never played it, your cheating yourself of a memory that you will never forget the rest of your life. It truly is memorable. Afterall, isn't that why we play?

David:

This is a great analysis of what Pebble Beach is all about as a golf course.
It is simply outstanding.
Unfortunately it has gotten so expensive even I think twice about ever playing it again.  I have played it about 15 times but have finally reached the point where I believe it simply isn't it worth it to do it again. The operative word being again.
If the price were more reasonable I would be trying to play it 15 more times
Anyone who hasn't done it should play there at least once.

Best
Dave

Quote from: David Stamm on December 13, 2006, 11:48:10 PM

Another thread prompted me to post this thread. I find it incredible how quick some are to criticize PB and then bring up the cost. While I agree it is outrageously expensive, I don't think that should have a bearing on the feelings one has about the course itself. True, you want to feel like you weren't ripped off, but honestly, who has felt ripped off after playing PB? Anyone? Tell me you don't get a rush when coming up from the South Gate through Carmel and you start getting your first glimpses of the course as you approach the visitors entrance. You get that glimpse after passing the Three Gables house of down to the 6th. Or after leaving the Lone Cypess you round the corner and head towards the Robert Louis Stevenson school and you can see up the 18th through the several hundred year old Cypress. While it's true there are some mediocre holes on the course, I think they stand out because of the spectacular holes that surround them. Not every hole can be 4-10. It always make me wonder why everyone will go out of their way to say "PB was good, but SH is just awesome!" SH is a great course, but come on, who can honestly say that it is superior. I know everyone has their opinions, but that really makes me scratch my head. IMHO, if one has to nitpick PB, than I think that person has become jaded.

"Well, if it didn't have the history....." PB didn't host it's first Open until 1972. The history doesn't have anything to do with grandeur of the course. It adds to it yes, but it would be alluring without it.

"Well, if it was taken away from it's ocean locale......." It is by the ocean! So are other famous courses. What does that have to w/ the design itself. Whether there's water at the bottom of the chasm that seperates the FW from the green on 8 or not, that ball is gone. If there wasn't water doesn't mean it wouldn't be thrilling when your approach soars over it. The ocean is what dictated where the holes were placed!


Well, I'm off my soap box. I just had to vent. I think PB is one of the greatest experiences, not just golf experience, EXPERIENCES of my life. If you've never played it, your cheating yourself of a memory that you will never forget the rest of your life. It truly is memorable. Afterall, isn't that why we play?

David:

This is a great analysis of what Pebble Beach is all about as a golf course.
It is simply outstanding.
Unfortunately it has gotten so expensive even I think twice about ever playing it again.  I have played it about 15 times but have finally reached the point where I believe it simply isn't it worth it to do it again. The operative word being again.
If the price were more reasonable I would be trying to play it 15 more times
Anyone who hasn't done it should play there at least once.

Best
Dave

Dave, I completely agree. There are too many courses I haven't played to warrant another go and take out another mortgage to make it happen.

Having said that, I think everyone should play there at least once in their life. As you said, if it were more reasonable I would be inclined to play it more, not w/ the current fare.


Here's a side question for everyone. It has become apparent that the Bandon courses are really giving Pebble a run for it's money as a destination. Does anyone think it's possible that Pebble Beach Resorts might gt creative w/ their pricing ie offer lower priced package deals to remain competitive? Airline price wars sort to speak? I've heard that lately, it has become easier to get on PB with shorter notice. As you all know, soemtimes to get what you want, you have to call 18 months in advance. Any thoughts?

David - interesting side-question.  But while it's certainly true that Bandon is right up there with Pebble in terms of the courses, well... Bandon as a town is not Carmel and likely never will be.  In any case it is certainly a legitimate competitor - I just have to figure it's a hell of a lot more likely Bandon's prices get raised than Pebble's lowered.  But yes, dare to dream.

 

David,
   I can't see Pebble ever coming down on their price. In fact, their price has gone up in ways that aren't readily apparent. It used to be if you stayed at Pebble Beach lodging, the green fee was cheaper, and the cart was included. Apparently, neither of those things is true any longer, but perhaps they might bring those back to add "value" to the equation.
    It was funny in 1991 when I played Pebble with my brother. At the time the green fee was $225, but you could get on for $165 if you stayed at Pebble lodging. The catch was that the cheapest room was $400. Pebble has a very odd way of determining value.

Amen brother Michael and I am happy to take your opinion and make it my own!

 

Re the experience crap, well... it's just a means of trying to understand those who don't share that opinion.

TH

FWIW, I don't think I'm entitled to any fabulous treatment for my $425.  Just let me play.  

Two weeks after September 11th  we went to the wine country with a couple of days down in Carmel.  A close friend roomed with R. J. Harper in college and arranged a complimentary tee time.  I arrived in the golf shop and there's no record of this and R. J. is nowhere to be found.  Fortunately, the course is wide open so I fork over my credit card and head to the first tee - happy as can be.  

So you see, I'm an apologist for one reason, it's a great golf course and I got to play it.

Mike