How much does setting influence ones enjoyment of a golf course? I tend not to care as much (meaning that a "poor" setting will not detract from an otherwise excellent golf course) however, I've found that an inspiring setting outside the golf course just serves to enhance any good feelings found therein.

Pebble Beach may be the poster child for this type of experience, but even there many feel that the settins has too much to do with the overall experience and that the golf absent of that is fairly banal. Having never been there, I can't comment, but this type of thing is germaine to the discussion.

Some good settings on good courses:

View of Bok Tower from the 18th at Mountain Lake at dawn:


View from the right side of the 10th fairway at Schuylkill Country Club:

Obviously a lot.  The gca question is whether a course like PB is great less its scenic virtures.

Of course the setting has a big influence on my enjoyment. Because I am clueless as an actual golfer, the setting makes my dubs and bananas incidental, while not at all distracting from the occasional 'backflipper'.

A good example is my addition of a very difficult trip [for me] to my 'to do' list. That is; The Wilderness at Fortune Bay. I saw it first in GD's Ten Best list. So when I looked up the site, those pictures made it an instant 'destination'. I cannot say if the golfing features of the course are good [though, considering the architect, I expect so] but the setting is a stunner!

Doug

Of course the setting influences the total experience of the round.  Sixteen at Cypress Point would be a little different if the body of water the player hit over were a bog in Iowa.  

Tommy,

In what manner?

I agree with Tommy.  The setting at Cypress sets it apart from most all other golf courses.  The opportunity to play through the trees, across the sand dunes, and right along the coastline is virtually unmatched.

Wouldn't most people agree shooting over the ocean is not only more beautiful, but much more intimidating to a golfer in general?  That additional "mental" factor is a huge part of golf course design and strategy.  

Are you suggesting that the ocean is "non-golf clutter" at Cypress Point?

Are you suggesting that the ocean is "non-golf clutter" at Cypress Point?

Yes, that is, unless you can drive it all the way to Japan.

So are all water hazards "clutter"?

No, and for maybe the first.... 40 yards or so, the Pacific Ocean isn't clutter at Cypress Point either.

What is clutter is everything outside a reasonable distance (the range of a misstruck shot).

Eric

I was exhausted when I had the pleasure of trying to hit a second shot to #17 at Cypress Point.  The setting is exhilirating, the air is wonderful (as Bob pointed out) but you can run out of adrenalin.  I think I ran low on oxygen.

James B

Kyle:

Just be careful what you're attributing to me, lest we start talking college football again and I get even meaner about your Nittany Lions.  

My point on this subject, made many times, and disagreed with many times by Mr. Fighting Irish, is this:  setting matters, and it's silly to say it doesn't.  Now you can try to get into why and how it matters, and say it effects the experience and not the architecture, or wonder if it affects one's playing strategy or not... but those are all side issues.  Yes Mucci and I did argue about each, and of course he remains very, very wrong.  

But the bottom line is this:  setting does matter.  One does not play this game with his eyes closed... and only the heartless or most competitive would even try to block it out.

TH

Kirk - where were you when I was battling this with Mucci?
 

And the question isn't so much does setting effect the golfer,
or should it... of course it does for most  -for just the reasons
you and Eric F. have said - but then again it can be blocked
out, and is so by some - those of a heartless nature, and those in ultra-competitive situations (both apply to Mucci at
different times   ).

No, the real question is what I think Kyle is asking, and
that is how much should it effect one's assessment of a golf
course.

It is here where Mucci and I differ the greatest.  He says
it should have no effect; I say to deny it is foolish.

I have great pictures of how Mucci and I each look
at Pebble Beach #6... maybe it's time to re-post those so
Kyle gets his head on straight.

 

Huck -

Now THAT is funny! Setting does matter whether or not it is an ocean or mountains or whatever.

Don't worry Huck, the WSJ is all over this.  You are in the Vanguard of the discussion with Mucci.

From the article, "Fourteen lines define a sonnet, 18 holes define a golf course. Most importantly, however, they were created expressly to give pleasure and trigger responses in us that go deep -- at least in those of us who know what we're talking about when we talk about golf."

Let the Huckaby-Mucci games recommence...