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Walt_Cutshall

Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« on: November 20, 2006, 12:33:27 PM »
I think golf would be a more enjoyable game if putts only counted for 1/2 a stroke. For instance, if you hit a par 4 hole in regulation, then two putt, you'd make 3. If you one-putted, you'd make a 2.5. Instead of being a par 72, a course would be par 54. More emphasis would be placed on ball-striking, and less would be placed on putting and short game. There would be new emphasis on determining whether a ball was actually on the putting surface. Architects might respond by making greens smaller (or bigger--I can't quite decide). The game might be less enjoyable to us as we age, but more enjoyable to younger segments--perhaps enough so that more people would start taking up the game.

What do you think?
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Paul Payne

Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2006, 12:36:10 PM »
Walt,

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. If you adjust the scoring to only 1/2 stroke but then lower par accordingly what have you changed? I would assume the only reason to adjust the stroke count would be to give a player an advantage against par.
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2006, 12:38:33 PM »
Hogan thought so.  ::)  After he got the terminal yips.  :P
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John_Conley

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Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2006, 12:47:56 PM »
no
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Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 01:01:52 PM »
It might be a fun game but it wouldn't be golf.

Here's a quote from "Golf is my Game" by Bobby Jones,

"Often, too often I think, putting has been referred to as "a game within a game," implying that in some way the putting stroke is, or should be, different from that employed in playing otehr golf shots."

and later,

"There occurs to me one other reason for saying that putting is a game within a game.  It makes it much easier to say or to think, "I played very well, but I couldn't putt," or "He's a fine golfer, but he can't putt."  I know--I have done it myself--but how can a man play golf well or be a fine golfer if he can't putt?"

Bob Jones said it, and by G*d, I believe it! :)  
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2006, 01:05:11 PM »
NO!

I guess this new game would be called GIR.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 01:06:09 PM by Garland Bayley »
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JohnV

Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2006, 01:05:43 PM »
Should a putt from 1/2 inch closer to the hole than a "chip" from the fringe with a putter save you 1/2 stroke?  I don't think so.
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Eric Franzen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2006, 01:44:39 PM »
Why not go all the way?

I hit the green in two on a par 4. I then pick up my ball and walk to the next hole with a 1,5 on the card.
Next hole: I (god forbid) miss the green. I pick up and walk to the next tee with a 2,6 on the card.

 
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2006, 02:32:56 PM »
Quote from: Walt C. on November 20, 2006, 12:33:27 PM
The game might be less enjoyable to us as we age, but more enjoyable to younger segments--perhaps enough so that more people would start taking up the game.

What do you think?

So we'll tell the people that have supported the game up to now to go screw in hopes of attracting this new "younger generation" with something different?

Pardon the gruffness, but my opinion is to let those people in the bar playing GOLDEN TEE.
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2006, 03:48:58 PM »
No. It's bad enough getting beat by a stroke. It would be even worse getting beat a half-stroke.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 11:29:33 AM by Rick Shefchik »
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2006, 05:03:08 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on November 20, 2006, 12:38:33 PM
Hogan thought so.  ::)  After he got the terminal yips.  :P

It's long been my theory (based on nothing, I'm quick to note, other than a few stories -- such as the one ending "Tell him to go ask Mr. Dunlop") that Hogan was not the solemn fellow everyone imagines -- but history's driest wit, forever looking for his next victim.

I see him thinking: "I wonder how many people will take me seriously if I propose the preposterous notion of having a putt count for half a stroke."
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Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2006, 05:17:02 PM »
Kids are often better putters in the first place. If anything, this would neutralize the advantage they have over the nervous wrists of the middle-aged golfer.
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Walt_Cutshall

Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2006, 06:45:45 PM »
Some pretty interesting responses, however some of you guys need to chill a little.  ;D
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2006, 06:53:04 PM »
Quote from: Walt C. on November 20, 2006, 06:45:45 PM
Some pretty interesting responses, however some of you guys need to chill a little.  ;D
I resemble that remark.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jeff Fortson

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Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2006, 07:03:10 PM »
no
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#nowhitebelt

Walt_Cutshall

Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2006, 07:06:53 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on November 20, 2006, 06:53:04 PM
Quote from: Walt C. on November 20, 2006, 06:45:45 PM
Some pretty interesting responses, however some of you guys need to chill a little.  ;D
I resemble that remark.


No 1/2 strokes for you!
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2006, 07:10:15 PM »
Quote from: Walt C. on November 20, 2006, 07:06:53 PM
Quote from: Garland Bayley on November 20, 2006, 06:53:04 PM
Quote from: Walt C. on November 20, 2006, 06:45:45 PM
Some pretty interesting responses, however some of you guys need to chill a little.  ;D
I resemble that remark.


No 1/2 strokes for you!
And the way I putted at the end of the season, I probably could have benefitted the most from this.
 :'( :-[ :(
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2006, 07:18:06 PM »
Quote from: Tom Dunne on November 20, 2006, 05:17:02 PM
Kids are often better putters in the first place. If anything, this would neutralize the advantage they have over the nervous wrists of the middle-aged golfer.

Tom,

We should send this newsflash to Michelle Wie.  Maybe she really doesn't know its easier to make every putt when you're 16 years old. ;)
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2006, 07:32:15 PM »
nope!
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Walt_Cutshall

Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2006, 09:28:05 PM »
Quote from: William Jerome Theodore Vostinak on November 20, 2006, 09:20:50 PM

Why stop at 0.5 stroke, why not 0.25?  Seriously....

That exposes it for the ridiculous ........ rather ridiculous ....... absolutely ridiculous idea that it is.

Hard to believe that the architect that suggested this absolutely ridiculous thought did so in one of the better "Classical Books on Architecture"!

(Insert head-shaking smilie)

p.s. put me down for a "no" if there was anything confusing about my answer.



What's so holy about 1 stroke? Why not 1.5? Or 2?

The idea isn't unprecedented. Sports change their rules as it pertains to scoring from time to time.
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James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2006, 06:30:33 AM »
Walt C

Theodore is referrring to a book by George C Thomas Jr (of Riviera fame I believe) titled 'Golf Architecture in America'.  It is a most magnificent book, with a heavy emphasis on strategic golf with options for all.  In an intentionally separate chapter, Thomas discussed arbitrary values.  There is a lot of discussion in that chapter which encourages an independant mind to think more widely about golf.  The narrow view of the chapter is to only remember the discussion of a half-shot for putting.

I think Theodore would approve of half-shots for putting if every stroke was counted as a half-shot. ;D

See you on a future post, and if you haven't read George Thomas Jr's book, I would encourage you to.

James B (a k a 'William' is my middle name, but my friends call me James)
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Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2006, 11:35:24 AM »
Quote from: William Jerome Theodore Vostinak on November 20, 2006, 09:20:50 PM

Why stop at 0.5 stroke, why not 0.25?  Seriously....

That exposes it for the ridiculous ........ rather ridiculous ....... absolutely ridiculous idea that it is.

Hard to believe that the architect that suggested this absolutely ridiculous thought did so in one of the better "Classical Books on Architecture"!

(Insert head-shaking smilie)

p.s. put me down for a "no" if there was anything confusing about my answer.



Could be that Redanman needs to "chill a little."
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Adam Clayman

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Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2006, 11:46:51 AM »
Garland- Passion is a good thing. Let the Dr. rail against the light. But I would say in this instance, the dark.

A stroke is a stroke is a stroke.

Although, with all the softening of green contours caused by the Stimp race, making putting much much easier (albeit faster) maybe putts should count as two strokes?
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

A.G._Crockett

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Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2006, 11:55:24 AM »
Imagine this scenario:

You hole out from the fairway on a par 4 for a 2.  Your opponent is getting a stroke on the hole, hits the green and two-putts for a 3, net 2, to halve the hole.  In effect, he got TWO strokes on the hole.

No thanks; I'm already nearly dead from getting pencil-whipped...
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"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would the game be better if putts were 1/2 a stroke?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2006, 12:02:19 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on November 21, 2006, 11:46:51 AM
Garland- Passion is a good thing. Let the Dr. rail against the light. But I would say in this instance, the dark.

A stroke is a stroke is a stroke.

Although, with all the softening of green contours caused by the Stimp race, making putting much much easier (albeit faster) maybe putts should count as two strokes?

Adam,

I was just borrowing a phrase from Walt. If you read the whole thread, you may have noticed I too may need to "chill a little". ;)
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne
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