[Steve_ Shaffer]

At least according to Donald Trump's interview on The Golf Channel tonight, Trump International in West Palm, site of this weeks LPGA event!!

GD has Trump at #2 behind Seminole and it is nowhere to be found on GW's rankings. For some reason, I couldn't find GM's rankings at golfonline.com

[Gary Slatter]

and money can't buy ratings?  It's the best course with a phoney waterfall next to a prison but how can it be #2?  Hell, I just gave my tickets away for ADP this week.

[Brad Klein]

Steve, according to our Golfweek ratings, Trump International is the no. 41 course in Florida. (Not quite up to the Golf Digest rating of No. 84 in the country.)

[cary lichtenstein]

And here I thought everyone believed Donald Trump's PR

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I just found GM's Top 100(2005) in US:

Seminole is #12

TPC Sawgrass is #29

World Woods Pine Barrens is #66

Trump International is #77

What publication has TI at #1 in Florida? Mad Magazine?

[bakerg]

I believe it was this magazine that ranked it #1:

http://www.trumpworldmag.com/

The funniest thing is when you see the cover of the current trump world magazine it is without fail = The Best Issue Ever.  

[Tommy Williamsen]

As a GD panelist I am embarressed by Trump's ranking.  I don't think it is even in the top 25 in the state.  It is flashy and it is good golf but it isn't a great course.  Oh well.

[Jay Flemma]

1 Sawgrass
2 Seminole
3 WW-PB

[Anthony_Nysse]

I'd take Pine Tree over TPC....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Lawrence Largent]

Mr. Trump on the Big Bore also said that his Los Angeles course was number one in California.


Lawrence

[Brad Klein]

He's close. We have it rated no. 58 in California.

[wsmorrison]

Brad,

What are your thoughts on Indian Creek?  

[Brad Klein]

Have only seen photos of Indian Creek. We have it ranked No. 18 in Florida. I think Ron Forse did some restoration work there. It sounds very cool and I look forward to seeing it some day.

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Brad.  You should see it, it is a marvelous course and club.  The clubhouse by Maurice Fatio is alone worth seeing.  The club, on a man made island is very private and beneath most radars screens, of which I am sure they are content.  The Army Corps of Engineers built the island to 3 feet above sea level from dredging the channel.  Flynn designed and built the entire island with elevations as high as 35', the highest in the county.  Every contour and topographic feature is by design so it is a real indication as to what Flynn would do without restrictions, much the same that Lido was for Macdonald.  Please see it when you get a chance, I think you will believe 18 is not its proper place on your ranking.  

Do you feel that knowing a course's architectural history, in this case going from flat man-made island to rolling golf course should enter into the ranking equation?

[Brad Klein]

Wayne,

Knowing that stuff helps you appreciate a golf course, and I always suggest to folks that they learn something about the place they are playing beforehand or during. It certainly is indispensable to me as a writer/researcher. But from a rating standpoint all that really counts is how the place presents itself, so unless the golf course works as a golf course, the background is mere adornment to a story. The main narrative is how the holes play.

[wsmorrison]

Understood.  Thanks, Brad.

[brad_miller]

Wayne, I am in agreement, IC is my second favorite course in FL.

[wsmorrison]

Brad M,

I take it Seminole is your favorite.  I've never been there, but from talking to friends and acquaintances that have a good eye for golf course architecture and have multiple visits at both, it would seem that some reverse the two favorites and others that select Seminole say the differential isn't very great.

[TEPaul]

Wayne and Brad:

As you probably know, I know Seminole like the back of my hand having played the place over the years maybe two hundred times, and luckily under vastly different conditions (by that I mean the golf course itself not something like the wind)

I don't know Indian Creek well---I've only played it once so many years ago I forgot about it. But Wayne and I certainly did have the opportunity to study the course about as comprehensively as one can.

I'd say architecturally Seminole and Indian Creek are probably about on par with each other.

Ross certainly had much better topography at Seminole and he used it just beautifully in a routing sense. Flynn had zero topography at Indian Creek and he did just a remarkable job creating it in such a way I wouldn't think anyone could ever tell.

In my opinion, Seminole has about 9-10 good holes which include perhaps 3-4 really great ones in that number. As for Inidan Creek in that vein, I'm not as sure but it seems like it pans out about the same.

Flynn may've turned his holes a bit more than Ross did at Seminole and Flynn probably used angle a bit more with his greens as Ross used slope a bit more.

Trying to compare those two golf courses will probably always play out about the same way the on-going debate about which has the better men's locker-room will always play out.

I would also think that Seminole has always been a more famous course in Florida than Indian Creek for the simple reason that Ross has always been more famous in Florida than Flynn.

[D_Malley]

check out this article on indian creek cc,  must be one of the most exclusive clubs in the country.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/miami-dade/cities_neighborhoods/5683090.htm

[Michael Ryan]

Has anyone on this thread played Calusa Pines in Naples yet?  Got the chance last year, and I thought it was fantastic.  I have yet to play Seminole or Indian Creek, but worked at Pine Tree for a few years, it is a great golf course.

[Tim Copeland]

If you have to pretty your course with flowers and plantings......you are in trouble

[David Stamm]

At least according to Donald Trump's interview on The Golf Channel tonight, Trump International in West Palm, site of this weeks LPGA event!!

GD has Trump at #2 behind Seminole and it is nowhere to be found on GW's rankings. For some reason, I couldn't find GM's rankings at golfonline.com

Yeah, and Trump National in California is better than Pebble because his is really on the ocean and Pebble is only on a bay. RRRiiigggghhtt.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Seminole, Mountain Lake, Pine Tree, then 5 or 6 more in the very good courses.

[Gary Slatter]

I would put the experience at Indian Creek just slightly above Seminole, at least four years ago when I played them both, Indian Creek several times. I love florida courses with minimal water in play.  I think when Raymond Floyd botched up the Doral Blue course he was trying to get the Indian River look in the bunkers, but failed.

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