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Adam Clayman

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Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« on: November 15, 2006, 01:21:47 PM »


Does the bunker far right fit?
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2006, 02:31:29 PM »
I think it looks similar in style to the new bunker on the left side of seven.

That bunker wasn't reachable from the new back tee on 13 when I was there....
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2006, 03:35:21 PM »
Adam,

That is either the worst picture of a bunker ever posted on this site or the most biased angle created to make it look horrible.  That bunker looks to fit in like the circle bunker at Yale...it is horrible and must have been built after C&C left the property.
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Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2006, 03:38:01 PM »
Fill it full of yucca plants (or whatever they are) like the other bunker and I couldn't tell the difference from the picture, Adam. :)

CHeers,
BRad
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2006, 03:40:25 PM »
Brad,

You are right, they both look horrible. At least they have that in common.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2006, 03:45:15 PM »
I now see that this is from a review by Ran dated 2003...maybe C&C came after Ran left and made some sense of this...any ideas.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2006, 04:07:38 PM »
This bunker (and there are actually two) was added a long time ago by a previous super. I'm not sure if it was Doug or not. But, on my recent visit to the course, I noticed immediately how these two bunkers didn't fit-in aesthetically or intellegently.

I was hoping others who know the course well enough would respond in kind. But since JakaB hates them all I see the futility of trying to discuss GCA on this site.

How about those bears?

Are the Bears like a golf course whose marketing isn't followed-up with enough discussion on it's merits within these halls?

Watch out for those Huskers, Callahan's offense just might be melding.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

John Kavanaugh

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2006, 04:17:56 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on November 15, 2006, 04:07:38 PM

I was hoping others who know the course well enough would respond in kind. But since JakaB hates them all I see the futility of trying to discuss GCA on this site.


If without doing any research I was found to hate bunkers that were added by a super does that not validate my opinion...I thought the far bunker to look out of place and the near bunker to look out of proportion based on the depth and internal bush placement.  If you only want people who have seen a site in person to comment on pictures of a site than simply say so...If you want a thread about architecture to compete with OT threads you need to work at it.  Simply follow me and date your architectural pledge and stick with it and we will eventually win the battle.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 04:34:13 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on November 15, 2006, 04:17:56 PM
Simply follow me and date your architectural pledge and stick with it and we will eventually win the battle.

Adam,

Don't take the bait, this ship is going under before Thansgiving. He is already struggling to stay on topic on his FLW thread and is considering jumping ship.  ;D
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 05:02:09 PM »
No worries Sully.

It's not the O/T threads that bother me, it's when a GCA thread gets hijacked with College football that's most frustrating.

Why people won't use the IM in those cases, is beyond me.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 05:10:14 PM »
Adam,

How did you feel about the new bunker on 7?

The bunker on the left above looks very similar to other bunkers on the course, no? It is a bad picture, I agree, but I'm surprised you found it so out of place..
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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 05:16:05 PM »
When you play it in person, the bunker shown in the picture fits perfectly. I don't know anything about the one on #7.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 05:19:43 PM »
Sean, Not the bunker on the left, the little ones on the right. On the outside of the turn.

The new bunker on 7? Which would that one be? The one that comes into play off the tee on the left? If it is that one, I found it deceptive. I hit one of my patented pulls and was shocked (fortunate)to find the ball beyond it in the first cut.

I also felt the bunker on the leftside of 12 was too close to the edge of death, to be anything but a form of containment. It had little strategic value. I wonder if from the old teeing ground, it had more of a line of charm effect? Where was the old teeing ground on 12? Anyone?
 
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 05:27:21 PM »
Got it.  I agree with the left bunkers on 12 comment. Still haven't figured out the best way to play that hole yet.

Yes, the bunker left on seven was new for the Senior Open.

What did you think of the large bunker left on 14?

Honestly, I haven't played it enough yet to know too too much about the course, yet, but I hopefully will.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 05:31:22 PM by Sean Leary »
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2006, 05:30:18 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on November 15, 2006, 05:02:09 PM
No worries Sully.

It's not the O/T threads that bother me, it's when a GCA thread gets hijacked with College football that's most frustrating.

Why people won't use the IM in those cases, is beyond me.

Adam - not having played the course, how can one comment?

Sending you an IM about the rest.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 07:32:39 PM »
Sean,
 The big bunker on the left of 14 was very cool. As were all of them, save the two mentioned.

I don't find fault with the look of the left one on 12, but I do wonder about it's position as it relates to the current teeing ground. More accurately put, I wonder about it's justification and evolution. Assuming it's at least 49 years old.

Huck,
 Got your IM and while I can't agree with you on moral grounds, ;) I do understand your points.

 All I can ask is that people relalize how intrusive it can be and to please try to respect others who do not participate in the football threads, by not bringing them into on topic ones.

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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 07:43:40 PM »
Adam,

I am not sure but I believe that the original tee was left of the current tee (I'll check the Mal Elliot book when I get home)

My thought stategy wise is that I think that the preferred line in from the fairway is from the left side of the fairway, so the closer you get to those bunkers, the bigger the gap between the goalposts, so to speak.  

The goalposts on 12 don't bother me as much as the ones on the tee shot on 15. From the back of that tee box, they are definitely in play, and they affect my shots for sure. In 4 rounds, 15 as the only hole I didn't make par or birdie on.
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2006, 10:18:14 AM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on November 15, 2006, 07:32:39 PM
Huck,
 Got your IM and while I can't agree with you on moral grounds, ;) I do understand your points.

 All I can ask is that people relalize how intrusive it can be and to please try to respect others who do not participate in the football threads, by not bringing them into on topic ones.



When I have seen that occur, the topic is so far gone that all architectural discussion has been exhausted anyway.   But yes, that is rude.  Which of course is what I am doing now.  So my apologies, back to Prairie Dunes.

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Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2006, 10:24:52 AM »
Adam,

Those bunkers on the right of 13 were  apparently added in the 80's as containment bunkers, as players were spending too much time looking for balls after losing their tee shots right.

As for 12, the original tee was well left and short of the current tee.  There was a large tree left, and the hole actually played as a dogleg left (great old picture in Mal Elliott's book, actually), and the goalposts weren't as they are now, but much smaller. I would imagine the left bunkers were put there for the same reason as the right bunkers on 13, containment for balls heading toward the tall grass.
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2006, 11:28:28 PM »
Adam:

It does when you're in it as it keeps you from the guntch! ;)  

Visually off the tee it blends with the inside bunker on the left and creates depth perception issues, actually making the inside of the dogleg look closer than it is and suckering a heroic attempt . . . so . . . yes it fits and is far more than just window dressing or containment bunkering!!

Jason  
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2006, 12:21:14 AM »
Jason, I disagree about the two right bunkers on 13.

They stood out like sore thumbs, (ok, maybe not sore thumbs) but it was illuminating they were added by a super and not part of the Maxwells design.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jason Blasberg

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2006, 08:40:34 AM »
Adam, I have to think that C&C had a say in both where to add and where to subtract bunkers.  Not that they are always correct, but I'd have to think they thought about those bunkers.

I never thought they stuck out but I then again I never played the course before they were there!
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2006, 08:42:28 AM »
Adam, what I know for sure is that for me those bunkers look a lot closer to the tee than they are and it causes me to cheat to the inside of the dogleg all the time when I'd often be better served hitting it st8 at the left bunker on the right.
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brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2006, 08:55:13 AM »
Those 2 bunkers were in fact deepen slightly and enlarged by C&C (Axland) and Stan George's team. I have never had a problem with them. The real big improvement in bunkering was done on 14, a sea change from the unatural looking large bunker left that was ment to help with speed of play.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Prairie Dunes 13th hole Bunker Add ons
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2006, 10:04:04 AM »
Brad, If they were deepened, it wasn't by much. What caught my eye, beside their placement, was their incongruity of look with the remainder.

Jason,
 I'll admit to being biased against the lack of principle involved when placing bunkers on the outside of doglegs. I just don't seem to be able to get over my bias. Holding onto it like some pissed off junkyard dog. :D

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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle
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