Skins Game- MVGC, CS, Black and Merion

« **on:** November 14, 2006, 03:48:24 PM »

Just wondering who would win all the cash between these four courses. CS is Crooked Stick,btw.

1-6 $20
7-12 $50
13-18 $100

I would imagine that Merion would win the first hole. So there is a start.

1 Merion

« **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2006, 03:52:48 PM »

Who are the first two competitors?

I'm ACRONYMICALLY challenged today.

« **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2006, 03:53:58 PM »

Sorry, Muirfield Village and Crooked Stick. I am too, should have been more considerate. I didn't think of it until now, but how about the battle between Stick, Merion and the Black on the 17th hole alone, think about those par 3's.

« **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2006, 03:59:28 PM »

OK!

With the courses that you listed, this really isn't close to a fair fight. Does Crooked Stick even belong in the same sentence as Merion?

I'm taking Merion in a landslide. The Black may make a couple of birdies here and there, Muirfield might have a chip in, and steal a hole, but Crooked Stick is doomed for a shutout.

« **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:06:45 PM »

WOW!!! I don't agree at all, but I love your confidence. I could see Muirfield winning 14 and that is absolutely it. Merion will be tough, but Crooked Stick is winning the 6th without question, so there will be no shutout. The 6th is as good as it gets.

Update

1 Merion

14 MVGC

6 Crooked Stick

4 Black

Another Update: Upon further reflection, I am not even sure about 14 at Muirfield, Crooked Stick's 14th is amazing. Crooked Stick should also be looking good on the 3rd hole as well.

« **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:31:23 PM »

Is this with carryovers or not?

You'll sure get a different score if you allow ties to carryover than if not

« **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:31:57 PM »

Quote from: redanman® on November 14, 2006, 04:25:06 PM

Quote from: Glenn Spencer on November 14, 2006, 04:06:45 PM
I could see Muirfield winning 14
Another Update: Upon further reflection, I am not even sure about 14 at Muirfield, Crooked Stick's 14th is amazing.

I'm going to guess that you've never played Merion, right?

MVGC can't win skins agaist three good Fazio courses. Puhleeze.

Good Guess. I have just walked Merion and played the others. I thought 14 at Merion was a fabulous hole, but the praise that is lauded upon 14 at Muirfield is quite heavy.

« **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:33:07 PM »

Quote from: Jay Flemma on November 14, 2006, 04:31:23 PM

Is this with carryovers or not?

You'll sure get a different score if you allow ties to carryover than if not

Good thought. Of course there are carryovers, if there is a tie. Does anyone have a problem with Crooked Stick winning the 8th hole? I don't know why they would. Bethpage's 8th is good though. Merion is just a solid hole and I don't think much of Muirfield's 8th compared to Crooked Stick's 8th. I would also think that the 13th hole comes down to Merion and Crooked Stick, two great par 3's. I still think Crooked Stick though.

« **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:42:49 PM »

Quote from: redanman® on November 14, 2006, 04:39:27 PM

Quote from: Glenn Spencer on November 14, 2006, 04:31:57 PM
the praise that is lauded upon 14 at Muirfield is quite heavy.

Praise is like photos, I suppose ......

I'm not picking on you, I'm indirectly picking on the folks at GD who first ranked MVGC so high and the sheep who have rated it since and not seen through the folly of this glorified housing course.

If MVGC were not the site of the Memorial, we'd likely never discuss it. It's probably about #4-6 in Columbus if one is really honest.

Bill,

Couldn't agree more, one of the reasons that it is on this list. Thought it would be nice to shine a light on the fact that great holes are lacking out there. However, 14 at Muirfield is a pretty good hole. Don't you have any winners?

« **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:47:21 PM »

Merion wins #'s 1,2,5,9,11,13,14,16,17 and 18

I have walked Merion and have pics....have not seen the others

« **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:51:05 PM »

Tim, if you haven't seen the other courses, how can you compare them, or evaluate them in any way?

« **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:57:16 PM »

Quote from: Tim Copeland on November 14, 2006, 04:47:21 PM

Merion wins #'s 1,2,5,9,11,13,14,16,17 and 18

I have walked Merion and have pics....have not seen the others

I am not disagreeing with any of those, but 13 at Crooked Stick is special. 5 at Merion over 5 at The Black, not so sure about that.17? Merion is a great hole, but I think I prefer Crooked Stick's. 18 at Merion is strong, but so is 18 at Crooked Stick. Another good one is 15 at The Black and 15 at CS. 15 at CS is one of my favorite par 5's anywhere. Now, that green has some things going on. 11 at Merion is probably my favorite hole in the world, so it wins 11, but I like Crooked Stick's par 5 11th.

« **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:57:22 PM »

Quote from: Jim Nugent on November 14, 2006, 04:51:05 PM

Tim, if you haven't seen the other courses, how can you compare them, or evaluate them in any way?

I am not comparing....just sayin Merion wins

lighten up Francis.....its only grass and dirt

« **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2006, 05:02:09 PM »

Update

1 Merion- 20
2-Merion-20
3- Crooked Stick- 20
4 Black-20
5 Black- Merion?, carryover
6 Crooked Stick- 40
7
8 Crooked Stick-50
9- Merion-50
10
11- Merion-50
12
13- Crooked Stick or Merion or Carryover
14
15
16- Merion-100
17
18

« **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2006, 05:09:09 PM »

Glenn:

I can't tell. Do you like Crooked Stick?

Sobe

« **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2006, 05:15:02 PM »

Glenn,

You are awarding a skin to the 3rd hole at Crooked Stick? If that par 3 is better than Merion's par 3, 3rd hole, I'll eat my hat.

The green of #3 at Merion is one of the best greens in all of golf. I really don't think that is an overstatement.

« **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2006, 06:08:38 PM »

Doug,

Very funny.

Jamie,

Okay, I don't have a problem with that. I liked 3 at Crooked Stick a lot. I have to give some opinions or something. Not many others are saying much. I thought these would be courses that many had been on. Are there any others that I am mistaken about?

« **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2006, 06:25:02 PM »

I've only played the Black and Merion. But, I offer this thought about Merion -- or any outstanding course for that matter: It's really difficult to take the holes out of context. After playing 5 and 6 at Merion, the tee shot on 7 narrows up plenty. And same for 8, particularly when you know you need to score. A great course is kind of like music in that respect. All in my humble opinion of course.

« **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2006, 06:53:37 PM »

Glenn,

I'm just having some fun with you. I might be somewhat biased, but I think very highly of Merion, whether you're talking about the entire course or individual holes. The greensites at Merion are spectacular.

« **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2006, 08:08:14 PM »

I haven't played the Black Glenn....but unless 16 or 17 there is something special, Merion wins 16, 17 and 18, because Merion wins 18 for sure

« **Reply #20 on:** November 15, 2006, 01:23:45 AM »

Glenn, fwiw George Pepper rated the 5th hole at Bethpage Black as one of the 18 best holes in the world. He also put Merion's quarry hole (16?) on that list.

« **Reply #21 on:** November 15, 2006, 06:40:52 AM »

The 5th at Merion is one of the greatest holes in golf and a wonderful example of using natural land forms and the interplay of natural hazards. The green site is amazing and in its entirety, the Hugh Wilson design is far better than the 5th at Bethpage Black.

George Peper thought that Shinnecock was designed by Dick Wilson. It was easily disproven by materials in the clubhouse and elsewhere.

« **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2006, 10:09:11 AM »

Never played CS but I have played the other 3....

#5 BB vs. #5 M... A brutal comparison. Basically comes down to the drive/fairway at BB vs. the approach/green at Merion. I'll take Bethpage by a nose because the hole requires you to shape two shots (two different ways) vs. #5 at Merion. I always bail out right at Merion away from the creek.

The green at Merion #5 needs to be seen to be believed. I will be very curious to see how they cut that green during the Open.

« **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2006, 11:11:51 AM »

Quote from: Wayne Morrison on November 15, 2006, 06:40:52 AM

The 5th at Merion is one of the greatest holes in golf and a wonderful example of using natural land forms and the interplay of natural hazards. The green site is amazing and in its entirety, the Hugh Wilson design is far better than the 5th at Bethpage Black.

George Peper thought that Shinnecock was designed by Dick Wilson. It was easily disproven by materials in the clubhouse and elsewhere.

Wayne,

In all seriousness, what can you expect from the 5th green at Bethpage?

The second is tough enough with a backboard. I think that green goes pretty well with the hole.

We are mostly getting trough the 18. I certainly love 17 at Crooked Stick, but I think Merion wins that ones as well as 18.

We just need clarification on 15 at the Black and the Stick.

« **Reply #24 on:** November 15, 2006, 11:32:38 AM »

Never been to CS but #15 at BB is a personal favorite. Try hitting a 4 iron into a back pin on that hole and then tell me what you think. Best green on the course. I still am amazed at Mickelson and Woods making birdie there in the third round of the '02 Open.

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