[RT]

Have a European client who will be in the Orlando area around first week of December.

Any suggestions from this savvy clan for 3-4 worthy courses?

RT

[John_Conley]

Have a European client who will be in the Orlando area around first week of December.

Any suggestions from this savvy clan for 3-4 worthy courses?

RT

R:

Every time this gets question is posted a half-dozen people suggest World Woods.  One of my all-time favorite places, I'll let you be the judge of whether it is in Orlando or not.  If it is, be sure to add Ocean Hammock to their list.

Closer to town, my picks are these:

* Victoria Hills (a drive of about one hour to Deland, but worth it - I consider this Orlando's best, public or private)
* Southern Dunes (which will no doubt be disliked by some because of all the ticky-tack housing, mainly for vacationing Brits)
* Mystic Dunes (Gary Koch channels MacKenzie for these wild greens)

A half-shade behind:

* Reunion Resort - Watson Course
* Orange County National - Panther Lake
* Orange Lake Resort - Legends
* Champions Gate - International

If they have dough to spend and want to go where the Tour plays I can recommend Bay Hill.  I cannot do the same for Disney's Magnolia.  Palm, however, is used for one round on Th and F of the event and is a lot of fun.

I think you can do very well on the cheap with these substitutes:

* Highlands Reserve (Davenport)
* Legends (Clermont)
* Palisades (Clermont, be sure to ask about course conditions)
* North Shore (near the airport and Lake Nona)

If they could access private courses I would try Isleworth first, then probably Lake Nona.  The golf at these is not superior to our best daily-fee options, however.

I probably forgot one or two, but it gives you a start.

Some to avoid that usually do well for attracting tourists are:
* Falcon's Fire (although many people love the place)
* Metro West
* Ridgewood Lakes (avoid at all costs)

For a sleeper pick:
* Hawk's Landing at Marriott World Center
* El Campeon at the Mission Inn, which probably should have made my initial list of the Top 3 (in which case there would be four)

Ultra-sleeper:
* Get in the car and drive 75 minutes to Golden Hills in Ocala.  Completely redone through the existing corridors by The Open Doctor Rees Jones, a wonderful day can be had for $50.  The layout could easily host a Tour event tomorrow.  Daily-fee, and nobody's heard of it.

On the outskirts:
The golf gets pretty good as you get outside the immediate Orlando area.  

* El Diablo
* The Dunes at Seville next to World Woods

[Joe Hancock]

John,

Are you not big on The New Course at Grand Cypress? I like that place.....

Joe

[John_Conley]

Joe, I don't think it is worth seeing at all.  I've played it a bunch.  For an experience reminiscent of Scotland, I think you are more likely to find St. Cloud (now it may be called "Royal St. Cloud", believe it or not) a better approximation.

I said I was probably leaving some off my initial list.  You've brought to light Grand Cypress and I think N/S is decent.  That said, it is very expensive and you may need to stay there to play it.

I realize my opinion on the New isn't unanimous.  I'm glad you like it.  I don't.

[Mike Boehm]

Some to avoid that usually do well for attracting tourists are:
* Falcon's Fire (although many people love the place)
* Metro West
* Ridgewood Lakes (avoid at all costs)

John -

I'm heading down to Orlando for a convention later this month and it looks like I'll be playing Falcon's Fire.  Can you tell me what you don't like about the course?  Does it have any redeeming qualities?

Mike

[John_Conley]

Mike, I moved to Orlando on January 1st, 1993 and actually worked at Falcon's Fire for a spell while in school as it opened.  (I also later worked at Grand Cypress a bit one summer in 1994.)

The average golfer likes Falcon's Fire - a lot.  It has wide fairways on the front and plays pretty easy for quite a while.  (It was rare for me to be out of the 30s on the front.)  It is in great condition all the time.  The facility really meets the mark for upscale daily fee.

From 11 or 12 in the course has enough teeth to challenge you.  It was described as a "turning of the screw" design because it gets progressively harder.  The back side wraps around a lake and the wind is usually fresh.  You need to hit it well to score well.  #13 has been pictured on threads here before, usually accompanied by comments about how it is dreadful architecture.  Lay back and out to the left, the tee shot is confusing if you get caught looking toward the green.

I'm going to coin a new term and say this is a prototypical "Rees-ort" course.  Unlike some of his difficult private clubs, Falcon's Fire is generally a feel-good round.  Nice conditions, fun course, attractive beverage girl, great grill and bar.

Is it great golf architecture?

No.

You are coming down for a convention so you are going to the right place for your event.

Another one to add for the visitors from Europe is the Grande Lakes course at the Ritz-Carlton.  Pretty good.

[cary lichtenstein]

El Campeon at Mission Inn

[ChipOat]

I'm one of the few around here that really does think Bay Hill is a fine golf course in terms of its' architectural merits.

It's also a pretty cool place if you're an Arnold Palmer fan (who isn't?) and, like Palmer, it's a very friendly place.

Also, sometimes The King himself is there playing golf and gin with his buddies.

[Mike Boehm]

Thanks for the overview, John.  Very helpful.

Mike

[Ken Fry]

El Campeon at Mission Inn

I second Cary's recommendation, and also John's on El Campeon.  Wonderful old layout on some very interesting terrain for Florida.

Ken

[RT]

To one and all,

Many thanks for the suggestions

RT

[BCrosby]

John -

I'm curious about what it is about The New you are so down on. I played it 15 years ago and thought it was a wonderful change of pace from the usual Florida formula.


Bob

[Andy Doyle]

John's pretty much got it nailed.

I will second (third?) the recommendations for:

Southern Dunes
Victoria Hills
OCN Panther Lake
Mission Inn - El Campeon

Regarding the private courses, what's the word on Country Club of Orlando?

I don't recall this course being discussed on here - apparently a Donald Ross design that was renovated sometime recently?  The history on their web site devotes much more space to the succession of expensive clubhouses with barely a mention of the golf course.

Anybody played it?

Andy

[John_Conley]

Regarding the private courses, what's the word on Country Club of Orlando?

Anybody played it?

Pretty bland.

Yes.

[John_Cullum]

Regarding the private courses, what's the word on Country Club of Orlando?

I don't recall this course being discussed on here - apparently a Donald Ross design that was renovated sometime recently?  The history on their web site devotes much more space to the succession of expensive clubhouses with barely a mention of the golf course.

Anybody played it?

Andy

Some guy named McConkey was pretty high on it.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19509;start=msg346732#msg346732

[John_Conley]

Sarge - that is TOO funny.  Great find!

Notice how Terry Lavin offered to set up a game... did he really or was he just setting someone up for a stupid prank?  (Just kidding.)

I have not been to CCO since McConkey III suggested I go back.  I'm guessing I should be leery if he offers to take me out!

[Bryan Izatt]

I might be going to Orlando in mid-December and Victoria Hills sounds interesting.  But, I can't find a web site for information on rates or getting tee times.  Anybody know if they have a web site or how to contact them?

[John_Conley]

Bryan:

Try Arvida Golf in a search.

[bakerg]

I'm with Chipoat on Bay Hill.  I have always enjoyed staying and playing there.  You would be hard pressed to find nicer people.  Add to the fact that you usually run into Mr. Palmer during the winter months.  

The only other course I am curious about in Orlando that I haven't played is the newer Norman course.  I think its Grande Lakes but I am not 100% sure of it.  I played Champions Gate the year it opened and was not really impressed.  

[Bryan Izatt]

Thanks, John.  Took a bit of searching on that to finally find the site.  Here's the link if anybody else wants it.  Certainly it's not obvious.

www.joetowns.com/victoriapark/golf.asp

Current price is pretty economical at $57 with a replay on another day within a week at half price.

[Greg Tallman]

Orlando Golf

Agree with:
Bay Hill
Southern Dunes (even with monopoly houses)
El Campeon (Mission Inn)

Also agree with skipping Grand Cypress.

[Mike_Sweeney]

El Campeon (Mission Inn)

Orlando Trip Report


Disney Osprey Ridge – The best of the Disney courses. It sits on an isolated piece of land, with no houses or Disney attractions in site. It has a couple of long cart rides, and may be the perfect example of GCA.com’s criticism of Tom Fazio. Visually appealing course that does not inspire, and with resort greens that  are flattish. Played it with my son who liked it and that is the point of this course, so Fazio did his job.

Sugarloaf Mountain – Was able to take a quick look at the property on the way to Mission Inn which is pretty close. From the future clubhouse area of this Coore & Crenshaw layout. It is real hill/mountain at Sugarloaf Mountain that reminds me of a steeper version of the frontside of Shinnecock and Wild Horse. It clearly is a housing community and will have a small Southern small town feel unique to Orlando, but C&C seemed to get the best land. People will be shocked at the elevation changes in Florida. It is supposed to open next January 2008, and most/all of the holes have been cut through the trees. Looks over but does not touch Lake Apoka (?), and also has a view of Orlando 35 miles away.

Mission Inn – Cary and a few others have sung the praises of the El Campeon course, and they are correct. Originally called the Floridian CC, and bought by the current family owners in the 1960’s. They planted a few too many trees at that time and the greens have shrunk up over the years. The owners have protected the course from development and most of the course is a nature walk type of place. The few places where the housing and resort touch the course, it is well done. I would call it the public Mountain Lake with a quiet laid back atmosphere that you get when you drive outside the core Orlando area. Again lots of elevation change. I would be shocked if there is a nicer public classic course in Florida. I only wish they would allow walking. Everyone at the resort was very friendly.

Mission Inn – Las Colinas – In direct contract to the “old” course, this Gary Koch design is the poster child for modern Florida housing course. It winds through condos and wetlands. When you hit the 11th hole 470 yard par 5 #1 handicap hole, it was no shocker that it is a bowling alley that makes it #1 handicap. Repetitive hole lengths, I ended up moving up and back to different tees to make it more interesting. It has a few good holes and you could do worse for a second 18 of the day, but you don’t need to drive 45 minutes from Disney to find this course.

Also drove by Bella Collina which is being done by Nick Faldo for Ginn Resorts. Is Steve Smyers involved? The development is on the same lake just a few miles from Sugarloaf. looked like some even steeper terrain, but it was a quick look. The housing prices points are higher than Sugarloaf.

[Michael Christensen]

some on this site could offer a round at Mountain Lake???  

I would definitely recommend Southern Dunes and Champions Gate....typical Florida golf, but solid conditions

[John_Conley]

Mike, glad you enjoyed El Campeon.  I did not know it went by a different name.  

Yes, Steve Smyers is the architect of Bella Colina.  Design credit goes to Nick Faldo.

Lake Apopka - two Ps.

I too think the course at Sugarloaf will be excellent.

[Jay Flemma]

Skip Orlando and play World Woods!

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