[Tim Leahy]

I'm considering playing these courses on vacation in Monterey the week after next, has anyone played them and have an opinion on architecture, difficulty, etc. Pasadera is a Nicklaus course but I have not heard much about it, and Corral went through a makeover recently I think. Any information on them would be helpful.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim:

First of all, I assume you know they are both private?

Pasadera has been discussed in here many times - many of the NorCal regulars, and others, have played it.  Nicklaus course - yes - gets up into some very severe hills, has two holes that cross, overall pretty quirky.  I found it to be great fun, but some just hated it.  I'd never call it a great golf course, but I do find it fun.  I think you'd enjoy it.  It's cart-ball for all except those who wish to prove a point by walking.

Corral I don't know much about, it's been many years since I played it and I think you're right, some serious work has gone on there in recent years.

TH

[Tim Leahy]

Tom, two holes that cross? What does that mean? Not literally cross right, wouldn't you need a hard hat?

[Tom Huckaby]

Yes, they literally cross each other.  But it's not in a place where the golfer is put in danger... It's actually a kinda clever use of space.

[Gib_Papazian]

I've already coughed up enough bile about Pasaputrid, but Corral De Tierra is a subject rarely mentioned here.

My Uncle Arnold had a home for many years above the 14th fairway and I've been around it many times.

It was remodeled a few years back and though not vastly improved is a decent "club" course and worth a play if you don't have to peel off a C-note.

It suffers from the "clubhouse on the hill" syndrome, which makes the routing a little awkward. There is a culvert that winds its way around the golf course in the manner of a Scotttish Bern; but it is poorly used and ends up serving as a perpendicular hazard to the line of play on at least four holes.

I guess it boils down to this: I you are driving down Highway 68 anyway and can play it on somebody else's dime, go ahead.

If not, I suggest you visit a infinitely more interesting public course called Laguna Seca just down I-68 a short distance. It is Jones Jr. design with all sorts of interesting shot propositions.

Pasadera is a waste of time. A disaster on every single level except one: The Clubhouse.

It's worth a lunch or dinner just to sit on the patio.

Turn around and head back through Salinas to San Juan Bautista. The Posada De San Juan is an excellent hotel, right in town and ridiculous cheap.  After a Margarita or two at Dona Esther's, take a left on the main road and in five minutes you arrive at San Juan Oaks GC.

As a matter of fact, two rounds at San Juan Oaks is what you want to do before driving to Pebble Beach.

[Tom Huckaby]

I concur with Gib about Laguna Seca - it is a very interesting, very fun golf course.  It also runs specials out the wazoo and won't cost you an arm and a leg even outside of those.  Especially if you haven't played it, you would get a kick out of it for sure, Tim.

I disagree re Pasadera.  I found it to be pretty darn fun.  Again, there's no greatness there per se... but there is scenic beauty and there are fun shots to be played.  The true putrid course down there is Tehama.

Gib also is correct re San Juan Oaks - very good fun - and dammit one of these times I'm gonna get down there with enough time to sample that restaurant!  Gib has trumpeted it repeatedly and while I am dubious about his distaste in golf courses (he does seem to hate a LOT of courses), I would trust his food views implicitly.

TH

[Gib_Papazian]

Huckster,

I do not *hate* a whole lot of courses, I just have finely calibrated sensibilities, easily disturbed by clumsy or pedestrian architectural offerings . . . . like Pasadera.

Playing a golf course should not require petons and climbing ropes - I don't care how nice the view. If all you care about is scenery, go rent "The Sound of Music."

Now Huckster, we both know you march beneath Topsy's flag, so your "aw shucks, I'm just happy to be on the team" stuff does not wash.

You still have to put down a number in the little boxes - and not everything is at least a five.

So, humor me. Tell me a golf course you hate besides The Ranch. A golf course that puts you in a foul mood the instant its name is uttered.

How about this: Your "reverse" Top Ten. The ten worst courses  you have played in descending order.

Muni's with no money don't count. Golf courses that take themselves seriously only.

C'mon, I am waiting.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Gib:

Now come on, you know such a list doesn't exist.  I love playing the game too much - and get to do so far too infrequently - to hate any golf course.  Hell I've played The Ranch three times - that ought to say enough.

Even The Ranch does not "put me in a foul mood the instant the name is uttered."  If someone said I could play there today, I'd be in the car right now.

It comes with loving to play the game this much I guess.  No golf course could ever put me in a foul mood.  We are quite different in this respect, my friend.

Which is why you are a WAY WAY WAY better critic of golf courses than I could ever hope to be.  The thing is, I don't aspire to that.

 

BUT... yes we do fill in the boxes, and some courses do get higher scores than others.  So to that end, here are courses that would not score will in my personal rating system:

1.  The Ranch
2. Tehama
3.  The Bridges at Gale Ranch
4,5.  Sunol Valley - both (which is interesting because if I recall correctly, we role-reverse on these)

That's all I can think of locally... any others would be munis.

Can't think of any others nationally or internationally either - but that can't be a surprise - when I travel I don't tend to seek out bad courses.

In any case, I meant no offense by my take that you hate a lot of golf courses.  As I reckon things, you do.  And there's nothing wrong with that at all.  I like way too many golf courses.

Tim can judge for himself who to believe re Pasadera then, that's all.  Hell I took a cart there like any sane person would.  And I did enjoy it.  You walked and hated it.  The truthful assessment of the course likely lies somewhere in the middle....

TH

[Tim Leahy]

Huck, Gib, thanks for the info, actually I visit Monterey two to three times a year for golf for about the last 20 years and have played Laguna many times and recently. I try to mix it up and haven't played Corral in about twenty years and have yet to play or even see Pasa or Tehama except on the web. I think I will take your advice and replay San Juan, I played it when it first opened and wasn't impressed, but I may have to give it a second try.
As far as courses that irk me, in the area, Monterey Pines(the Navy Course) has always bothered me in that there are some good holes on the back but in 20 years they seem to have done nothing to the front and whenever I give it another try it is always in horrible shape. I know it's military but Fort Ord used to always shine before it went public. Another Muni that I have not played or seen is Salinas, is it worth even a look?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim - cool - this has been worthwhile if only to see Gib and I go at it a little.

 

I'm with you on Monterey Pines - fun, quirky, weird course but frustrating because it could be so much more.  

Salinas Fairways is decent - not great, nothing thrilling, harder than it looks.  Good prices... but not really worth seeking out or anything.  

TH

[Mike Benham]

... actually I visit Monterey two to three times a year for golf for about the last 20 years ...

Sounds like you should be telling us where to play ...

[Tim Leahy]

... actually I visit Monterey two to three times a year for golf for about the last 20 years ...

Sounds like you should be telling us where to play ...

I tend to play the same places Poppy Hills, Fort Ord, PG and of course Huck's favorites when I buy a Duke's card, Del Monte, Spyglass and Spanish Bay But since joining this site I have tried to broaden my scope and view the courses from a design perspective.

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