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cary lichtenstein

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Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presiden
« on: September 25, 2006, 03:08:37 PM »
Has this thought run across anyone's mind?

Perhaps the Americans have little desire to play in 2 cups, Ryder and Presidents. Perhaps everyone is afraid to come out and say it as it would be booed or thought of as un American.

They get no money for either, it takes a minimum of 2 to 3 weeks out of their schedules, home life, etc.
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

tlavin

Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006, 03:11:11 PM »
Oh, I think that there's a strong contingent that has little interest in playing.  A few years back, there was a backlash when players complained about the fact that they didn't really get paid all that much.  At this point, with all of the jingoistic, pseudo-patriotic, we-are-at-war bullshit going on, I rather doubt that anybody could complain about playing "for his country", but it sure looks like they don't give a shit.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2006, 03:12:53 PM »
There is no secret, they definitely don't feel the need for both.
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 03:28:32 PM »
See my reply in the Sergio thread.

If the World Golf Hall of Fame sees the Ryder and President's Cups as "Other Accomplishments" with no mention of record then why should the players care so much either?
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Robert Emmons

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 03:32:53 PM »
No question that they would prefer not playing in both...Every four years would be enough for them...RHE
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Jim Franklin

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 03:47:27 PM »
Get rid of the President's Cup. It was designed just as a money maker anyway. I know the Ryder Cup makes a ton of dough, the PGA should be able to survive. The players have to get tired of this every year and maybe would care more if it was every other year.
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Mr Hurricane

Phil Benedict

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 04:02:04 PM »
Who cares about the President's Cup?
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Philippe Binette

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 04:04:11 PM »
I like the three team system...

Euro got the Ryder Cup...

2007:next year US plays ROW, the winner plays the Euro for the Cup the year after

2008:Euro plays the winner, if they win they stay up with the cup, if they loose, they play the looser of ROW / US looser of 2007  
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Dan Kelly

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 04:44:53 PM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on September 25, 2006, 03:08:37 PM
They get no money for either, it takes a minimum of 2 to 3 weeks out of their schedules, home life, etc.

Their endorsement deals don't included incentive clauses for making Ryder Cup and/or President's Cup teams? That would surprise me.

And: They do get a minimum of about 50 grand at the no-cut World Golf Championships tournament this week.
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Chris Kane

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 04:47:58 PM »
As a neutral observer, I don't want the Ryder Cup to change format at all.  Europe v America is special, and shouldn't be diminished by  involvement of a ROW team.  How about the winner of the Ryder Cup playing the Internationals for the President's Cup?
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Anthony Butler

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 04:51:36 PM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on September 25, 2006, 04:04:11 PM
I like the three team system...

Euro got the Ryder Cup...

2007:next year US plays ROW, the winner plays the Euro for the Cup the year after

2008:Euro plays the winner, if they win they stay up with the cup, if they loose, they play the looser of ROW / US looser of 2007  

I like it... it's the same way you decide who stays on the pool table at the pub. Clarke and Woosie are already odds-on favorites.

BTW-No f___ing way it will happen unless the PGA of America is compensated for the large amount of money they would be giving up. And watch out getting in between Tim Finchem and the bag of money the President's Cup generate.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 05:29:24 PM by Anthony Butler »
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CHrisB

Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2006, 04:53:23 PM »
When the President's Cup matches started in 1994, the U.S. was coming off wins in the 1993 and 1991 Ryder Cups, and a tie in 1989. Since then, the U.S. has lost 5 of 6 Ryder Cups, with Brookline the lone exception.

Divide and conquer?
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Rick Shefchik

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2006, 04:54:24 PM »
In a more general sense, Ryder Cup participation must be a huge boost up the endorsement ladder for the non-Tigers and non-Phils. Even if the general public doesn't watch the Ryder Cup, golf equipment consumers do. Even Wetterich and Taylor ought to benefit from this added exposure; J.J. Henry should double his endorsement income.

The guys who don't want to play every fall are the ones who are most needed.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot: if, in their current dominance, the Europeans become the glamor team that everyone wants to watch, and they embark on a schedule of international matches every year, how long would it take before Sergio and Paul Casey began to complain about burning out on these matches?
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cary lichtenstein

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2006, 05:25:07 PM »
Quote from: Chris Kane on September 25, 2006, 04:47:58 PM
As a neutral observer, I don't want the Ryder Cup to change format at all.  Europe v America is special, and shouldn't be diminished by  involvement of a ROW team.  How about the winner of the Ryder Cup playing the Internationals for the President's Cup?

Chris:

How about the loser at the Ryder Cup having to play in the Presidents Cup. That might be the incentive the players are looking for ;D

Cary
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tom_Doak

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2006, 06:35:42 PM »
Cary:  That's exactly what Philippe's scenario suggested (and I suggested on another thread).  You pay the winner of the Ryder Cup 1/3 of the money from the President's Cup and they don't have to play in it.

BTW, I just happened across a note in the paper at lunchtime about the US losing in the semifinals of the Davis Cup (tennis for anyone who doesn't know) to Russia.  They haven't turned that event into a media circus and parade of stars, but we still have the same problem ... we don't have the best players anymore and we have been getting our butts kicked like clockwork for a few years now.
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Danny Goss

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2006, 06:36:56 PM »
Maybe the Americans just dont have the best players. Which, will of course, come as a great shock to the majority of Americans. Lack of international travel and playing the same old style of courses may just have made them the softies they are.
Perhaps the Ryder Cup format should be changed to Europe versus the Internationals - just to make a decent game of it!  :)
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Evan_Green

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2006, 06:38:26 PM »
I dont agree that they dont give a s---

Did you see how hard DiMarco tried in the last match to come back even though it was a "meaningless" match. He came up short, but I give him an A+ for effort
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Robert Thompson

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2006, 06:59:32 PM »
It is a real jingoistic attitude that says the Ryder Cup must involve the U.S. team. What about a three team system that eliminates the Presidents Cup. That way, if you lose you don't have to worry about it for four years. Lehman was asked about expanding the U.S. team to include North and South America and called it "insulting." Not that Mike Weir and Stephen Ames would have helped all that much, but man the U.S. is getting smoked.
The truth is the Ryder Cup has already evolved to include Europe, which it did not prior to the late 1970s. Why not evolve it again?

The only reason I wouldn't expect it to change is because of the cash it is worth to the Euro PGA and the U.S. PGA and the cash the PGA Tour gets for the Presidents Cup.
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Rick Shefchik

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2006, 07:06:28 PM »
Now that I think about that South America/canada proposal, it is insulting. We should add Ireland.
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Danny Goss

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2006, 07:47:47 PM »
Over here in Australia we seem to follow the US into every other battle on the face of the earth so why not hook the Aussies up to assist in the battle against Europe?  :D
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CHrisB

Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2006, 08:16:10 PM »
I think Australia should have its own team... Would the 2006 U.S. Ryder Cup team beat the following team from Australia captained by Peter Thomson or Greg Norman?

Adam Scott
Geoff Ogilvy
Stuart Appleby
Robert Allenby
Rod Pampling
Peter Lonard
Aaron Baddeley
Mark Hensby
Nick O'Hern
John Senden
Steve Elkington
Stephen Leaney
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mtp

Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2006, 08:32:04 PM »
No, they would lose to Australia. The Europeans can flat out play. They take enormous heat for not winning majors (three of which reside in the US). If the event was a stroke play format, it would be nip and tuck, in match play the Europreans will not lose in the forseeable future.
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2006, 09:39:29 PM »
Will Finchem and the PGA Tour give up the money they get for the President's Cup? I doubt it. Will the PGA of America and the European Tour share the money they get for the Ryder Cup with the PGA  Tour? I doubt it.  All this talk of merging the 2 events into 1 bi-yearly event with a 3 way competition, perhaps singles only, even though it may make sense, will only happen if PGA Tour members decline to play in the Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup.Then perhaps a merger could take place. Is there any sanction if they don't play? I wouldn't want to play in both events on a yearly basis. Who needs the stress of high-level match play every year for no money? Didn't Weiskopf opt out of the Ryder Cup once?

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Jim Nugent

Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2006, 10:58:50 AM »
Quote from: Danny Goss on September 25, 2006, 06:36:56 PM
Maybe the Americans just dont have the best players.  

Then why have American golfers won 10 of the last 12 Open Championships...8 of the last 12 Masters...7 of the last 12 U.S. Opens...and 9 of the last 12 PGA's?  

Here are Europe's wins over the same time span:  

Open Championship:    1 of 12
Masters:                           2 of 12
U.S. Open:                       0 of 12
PGA:                                 0 of 12
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 11:01:48 AM by Jim Nugent »
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Mark Pearce

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Re:Do the American Players secretly not want to play in both Ryder Cup and Presi
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2006, 11:07:07 AM »
Quote from: Jim Nugent on September 26, 2006, 10:58:50 AM
Quote from: Danny Goss on September 25, 2006, 06:36:56 PM
Maybe the Americans just dont have the best players.  

Then why have American golfers won 10 of the last 12 Open Championships...8 of the last 12 Masters...7 of the last 12 U.S. Opens...and 9 of the last 12 PGA's?  

Here are Europe's wins over the same time span:  

Open Championship:    1 of 12
Masters:                           2 of 12
U.S. Open:                       0 of 12
PGA:                                 0 of 12
The US Ryder Cup team had 17 majors between them,  Europe 2.  I reckon that's three players with a major on one team to one on the other and even then Olly's well past his best.  But no-one is arguing about the top three in either side, rather it's about strength in depth.  There's nothing below the surface in the US side which compares to Clarke, Westwood, Stenson, Karlsson, McGinley et al.  And the argument isn't about who's been best over the pat 12 years, it's about who's got the best 12 golfers in 2006.
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