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Jason Blasberg

Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« on: September 19, 2006, 11:32:29 PM »
Clearly one of the top 5 funniest moments that I've experienced on a golf course, at Engineers several weeks ago from the 17th fairway Dr. Childs plays his approach directly for the 1st green.  

Here's the approach to 17 green



And here's where Geoff played it:





Apparently, he thought is was an Alps!!

Is it a design strength or weakness for players to mistake the correct pin to play toward?

Anyone have similar stories, if so where?
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mike_beene

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 11:40:16 PM »
A group of Japanese gentlemen in front of us on the Old Course hit their approaches to 17.It wasn't reverse day and I dont know if they had caddies.I remember a good crowd on 17 sorting things out and the starter for once a little freaked out.
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Doug Siebert

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 12:22:09 AM »
The first time I played TOC in '91 when I played #10 I aimed at the #8 pin on the right side of the double green.  The #10 pin was way way left and hidden by the gorse from the tee, and I guess I was still used to the out pins.

As luck would have it I hit a big hook and it ended up going for #10 pin anyway which I eventually noticed as my ball rolled up onto the green, and I two putted from 60' for a birdie.  When I hit the shot my dad's caddie said it was a wonderful play, to this day I don't know if he thought I was trying to do that or was just making a joke at my expense :)

To make things worse, when I returned 10 years later the pin was way left again, this time I knew where it was and aimed there, and hooked it deep into the gorse.  I reteed, and as often happens after something like that I overcompensated and pushed it way long and right, directly at the #8 pin, which was playing way up front on #8 so about as far as possible from the #10 pin as one could get.  I was only about 20' from it, I had to wait for golfers playing #8 to play up before I could putt out.  Never having played such a long putt before, I left it 30' short and three putted for an ugly 6.

I have feeling that hole is going to be laughing at me every time I play there for the rest of my life ;D
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 12:28:54 AM by Doug Siebert »
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My hovercraft is full of eels.

ForkaB

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 02:10:10 AM »
I hit my 2nd shot to the 3rd (Cardinal) at Prestwick at the 16th flag.  It was my third time playing the course, I think....
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2006, 02:49:45 AM »
I did the same when playing #13 Hole O' the Cross-In the very first time I played the Old Course. I was suckered, jived, conned, baited into thinking what I thought the correct pin was. A freshman Old  Course mistake--not paying attention to flag color had me aimming at a pin I had already played--the 5th!

If ever there was a hole with sneeky strategic value, it's the 13th. I have yet to really grasp the best way to the hole for my game. I would surmize that going left would be the best way to play the hole playing short of the ugly, and I mean really ugly grass bunker, but then you have to one putt!

I've played it to the right side off of tee and then hit a blind second to the 14th tee, just right of the green, only to take four more to get it into the hole--TWICE!  After that, I decided the left side was my side of choice and still have managed nothing better then a five from there!

YIKES! what a freeking tough hole!
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Mike_Sweeney

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2006, 06:14:28 AM »
Quote from: Jason Blasberg on September 19, 2006, 11:32:29 PM

Is it a design strength or weakness for players to mistake the correct pin to play toward?

Anyone have similar stories, if so where?

Well obviously you need to play a course a few times to understand the architecture! :)

Once played from 7 tee to 11 green at National. It is a pretty good hole. Once had a friend play to the flagpole behind the 3rd green at Yale after me saying "hit to the flagpole". I now say, "hit to the flagpole which is 20 yards behind the green".

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wsmorrison

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2006, 06:44:36 AM »
Standing on the tee at Pine Valley's 15th, it is tempting to urge newbies to hit their tee shot instead towards the 16th green right of the 15th fairway.  The 16th green does beckon from the 15th tee although it is about a 300 yard carry over water  :)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 06:45:10 AM by Wayne Morrison »
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JohnV

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2006, 08:16:35 AM »
Quote from: Doug Siebert on September 20, 2006, 12:22:09 AM
The first time I played TOC in '91 when I played #10 I aimed at the #8 pin on the right side of the double green.  The #10 pin was way way left and hidden by the gorse from the tee, and I guess I was still used to the out pins.

As luck would have it I hit a big hook and it ended up going for #10 pin anyway which I eventually noticed as my ball rolled up onto the green, and I two putted from 60' for a birdie.  When I hit the shot my dad's caddie said it was a wonderful play, to this day I don't know if he thought I was trying to do that or was just making a joke at my expense :)

To make things worse, when I returned 10 years later the pin was way left again, this time I knew where it was and aimed there, and hooked it deep into the gorse.  I reteed, and as often happens after something like that I overcompensated and pushed it way long and right, directly at the #8 pin, which was playing way up front on #8 so about as far as possible from the #10 pin as one could get.  I was only about 20' from it, I had to wait for golfers playing #8 to play up before I could putt out.  Never having played such a long putt before, I left it 30' short and three putted for an ugly 6.

I have feeling that hole is going to be laughing at me every time I play there for the rest of my life ;D

Doug,

Last week at the Mid-AM, one of our officials told me he did exactly the same thing you did the second time while playing at the Fall Meeting of the R&A.  He had shot 35 on the front and made 6 at 10, never to recover.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2006, 08:21:13 AM »
Jason,

The third picture is interesting.

What's the story behind that mound ?

What function does it serve ?

How and why was it constructed ?
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2006, 09:42:06 AM »
Quote from: Mike Sweeney on September 20, 2006, 06:14:28 AM
Well obviously you need to play a course a few times to understand the architecture! :)

Once played from 7 tee to 11 green at National. It is a pretty good hole. Once had a friend play to the flagpole behind the 3rd green at Yale after me saying "hit to the flagpole". I now say, "hit to the flagpole which is 20 yards behind the green".

I actually should have used Yale in lieu of ECC in that other thread . . . Yale is a very similar situation where a well thought out and executed restoration project has revealed the greatness within.  And, btw, Yale gets better each time I play it and I see new things each time ;)
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2006, 09:46:05 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on September 20, 2006, 08:21:13 AM
Jason,

The third picture is interesting.

What's the story behind that mound ?

What function does it serve ?

How and why was it constructed ?

Pat:

That mound is the 18th tee box, on the other side of it is a bunker complex that runs between it and 1 green.  It serves as a flat, albeit elevated area of ground from which one commences play on the 18th hole  ;)  It was moved back toward the 1st green after having been further back toward the 17th hole.  The tee is once again intimately related to the 1st green, a real going out and coming home.

Jason
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2006, 09:48:48 AM »
Quote from: Jason Blasberg on September 19, 2006, 11:32:29 PM





Pat's question about the mounds makes a lot of sense so I need to point out the two mounds which Geoff played over are actually the tee boxes for 18.  It illustrates how close the 1st green and 18 tee is with a bunker complex connecting them.  
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2006, 09:54:06 AM »
Jason

 :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[

Its clearly a better hole the way I played it and Strong obviously didn't route the course in an optimal way.  I hereby propose a REDESIGN such that the wonderful first green gets use on two holes. It would save on maintenance and who cares if players getting out late on #1 get pelted with golf balls every so often.

I was even in the correct fairway! In my defense, I was helping someone look for their ball in the right rough/trees and the first green was the one that first caught my attention.  My 8 or 9 iron approach looked awful long to me from the sprinkler yardage.

PS- The second time I played a few weeks later I played to the correct 17th green which is a superb right to left and front to back canted surface with multiple pin locations on ledges and hollows that Trip Davis restored to glory.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 10:00:29 AM by Geoffrey Childs »
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2006, 09:54:09 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on September 20, 2006, 08:21:13 AM

What's the story behind that mound ?


A very distinct plateau, created by the thumbprint (as Redanman calls them) on the back left edge of the green is seen here from the 18th tee . . . while heading home one need only look to the left to see the green that likely greeted the first time visitor abruptly.





Pat, the above photos are from the 18th tee, the mounds, looking at the 1st green.  

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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2006, 10:04:47 AM »
I forgot to add that as I recall I screamed fore! after I saw where Geoff was hitting it but fortunately nobody was on 1 green.  Geoff, I forget, did you hit the green in reg.?  
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Mike_Cirba

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2006, 10:09:19 AM »
Geoffrey,

I disagree.

Being that Jason thinks I'm "splitting the middle" too much these days, I think a new green should be constructed on the hillside between the 1st and present 17th greens and that one should be used on 17.  That way you'd each be half-right.  ;)  ;D

Are you going to be in town next weekend?  
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2006, 10:10:26 AM »
Quote from: Jason Blasberg on September 20, 2006, 10:04:47 AM
I forgot to add that as I recall I screamed fore! after I saw where Geoff was hitting it but fortunately nobody was on 1 green.  Geoff, I forget, did you hit the green in reg.?  


Jason

It was a good shot that I hit but the yardage from the sprinkler to the first green is fortunately about 20 yards (my estimate) longer carry so I came up just short of the bunker.

Funny thing was my young caddie was walking way ahead as he tended to do and I thought he was rude/NUTS because he was right smack in my line of play to the green.  Now that shows either my great concentration on the task ahead or my narrow field of vision.  You can decide  :-[
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2006, 10:10:27 AM »
So, we've still not addressed part of my original question regarding whether it is a design strength or weakness for a player to legitimately be mistaken as to what green to play.

I submit, given the "homer" that I am (that's for you MS ;)) that it's a distinct strength in that it illustrates the intimacy of the routing and means a course likely has previews and returns, something I've always found very appealing.  

BTW, guests have also thought on Strong's 12 tee that the hole played to Strong's 3rd green.  Which would make a very interesting and very drivable short 4 with long being death.
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2006, 10:11:40 AM »
Quote from: Mike Cirba on September 20, 2006, 10:09:19 AM
, I think a new green should be constructed on the hillside between the 1st and present 17th greens and that one should be used on 17.  That way you'd each be half-right.  ;)  ;D

Classic!  ;)
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2006, 10:11:59 AM »
Quote from: Mike Cirba on September 20, 2006, 10:09:19 AM

Are you going to be in town next weekend?  

Whose town?

Call me as we have an out of town GCA member who should be getting a tour of Yale on Sunday.
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2006, 10:16:03 AM »
Jason

I'm not sure if its a design asset but it does highlight the vistas that were created by the tree removal program that unfold the great terrain from many angles.  That itself is a great feature.

As we discussed, Engineers could have a fun year end cross country tournament with a wild routing.
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Mike_Cirba

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2006, 10:20:25 AM »
Geoff/Jason,

Buried at work but did want to check your availabilty for the weekend of 9/30 to meet in NJ?

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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2006, 10:35:33 AM »
Quote from: Mike Cirba on September 20, 2006, 10:20:25 AM
Geoff/Jason,

Buried at work but did want to check your availabilty for the weekend of 9/30 to meet in NJ?



Can do.  
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Mike_Cirba

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2006, 11:13:17 AM »
Cool...I'll call you next week to work out details.
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Darren_Kilfara

Re:Dr. Childs, where are you going?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2006, 11:18:02 AM »
I did this last year in a medal competition at Crail (Balcomie) - I was playing the first hole and hit my approach at the flag on the 12th green. Not quite as stupid as it sounds, but pretty stupid all the same. (The good news is that when I next putted on the 12th, I was tapping in for my fourth birdie in a row; the bad news is that because of the way I started my round, it pretty much didn't matter!)

Cheers,
Darren
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