[Patrick_Mucci]

Have modern day architects lost the vision and/or the ability to create contours on the putting green that will penalize approaches from the wrong angles of attack ?

With the trend toward narrower fairways and flatter greens, has this become a lost art ?

What modern day putting greens could be the poster child for the concept of penalizing an approach from the improper angle of attack ?

[Tom_Doak]

Pacific Dunes #2, 3, 4, 8, 9 and 18.

Ballyneal #2, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 17.

I don't mean to suggest I'm the only one building such greens.  But we do think about the subject a LOT.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

In an era of narrowed fairways aren't you restricted from performing that task ?

Doesn't the rough beyond the narrowed fairway lines make contouring too penal for those golfers in the rough ?

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

Can you imagine NGLA's #6 green and surrounds at the end of about a 350 yard hole with about 100 yards of unencumbered fairway in front of it?  

[Jim Thompson]

Pat,

I think the creation attack angle mandating greens is the only way to create courses that can withstand the quandary of being tournament and regular play tracks.  Currently, the most significant difference between regular and tourney set-ups is rough length.  If a course is designed with narrow fairways and the rough is playable under non-tournament conditions, the average player, who spends most of his time in the rough anyway, really isn’t impacted all that much when the rough is between 1 ˝” and 2 1/4”.  The average player would probably prefer to sweep the ball out of this type of rough rather than hit from the current standard of tight fairways under 7/16”.

You may be onto something here, in that attack angle greens, centrally contoured, will put a premium on shot making and shaping to open up the angles / pin placements from the fairway.  To do this will require a ball with a greater ability to spin.

Cheers!

JT

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

One of the great things about fescue fairways -- or bermuda, or paspalum -- is that it doesn't cost much more to maintain the grass at fairway height than at rough height, so wide fairways are affordable.  

And, if you get the greens right and the angles right, the course will be well defended and narrow fairways will not be necessary.

[Mark_F]

What modern day putting greens could be the poster child for the concept of penalizing an approach from the improper angle of attack ?

National Moonah's - because they put you to sleep.

[Jason Blasberg]

1, 2, 5, 10 and 14 at Cuscowilla all "punish" what appears to be a good tee shot or layup (2 and 14, 5 pars) that is in the fairway as, without exception, the "punished" angle of approach is from the safer/conservative lines of play.

In fact, the 1st at Cuscowilla is the best use of width that I recall seeing in a modern design. It is clearly the most severe punishment at Cuscowilla as the gigantic fairway right and safe of the bunkers and fescue left leaves a super difficult approach often over or cutting around a bunker to a back to front pitched green with fall offs on all sides that is at about a 45 degree anlge to almost an 80 degree angle or so depending up how far and how right you hit it.  

The bold line hugging the inside of the trouble leaves a much shorter shot and an angle looking right up the throat of the green.  Again, the 1st stands out in my mind as the best use of width that I recall seeing in a modern design.


   

[Jim Thompson]

Patrick,

You really need to come visit.

JT

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