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Matt_Ward

My Day at Dismal River
« on: August 20, 2006, 12:46:39 PM »
It is hard to encapsulate all the unique elements that
Jack Nicklaus and his team have created at Dismal River in Mullen, NE -- suffice to say, minus the shortcomings of one hole which will be changed shortly, the totality of what you find at there is without question among the top 2-3 Nicklaus courses of the total of 60+ I have played to date. And if the changes are indeed carried out at hole # 13 then the likelihood that the course could very well be Jack's finest solo design is indeed a high probability.

Dismal is located off Rte 97 at mile mark 64 and is no more than a very short distance from the entrance way off Rte 97 for Sand Hills as most on this site are well quite familiar with.

The same surreal environment you find at the C&C layout is indeed present at Dismal River.

After you leave highway 97 you trek 17 miles to the facility on a road that would match any of the narrow ones encountered when driving in Ireland. I had the pleasure in doing this during the night hours and fortunately one of the workers was able to assist me when I made it to the clubhouse in finding one of the on-site cabins.

The expanse of the property and the connection to Mother Nature is alive and well at Dismal River.

The course is indeed a quality test and from what Jack has done the architecture present is indeed compelling in so many ways. The team Nicklaus has brought forward has clearly moved a good ways from the brawny but often empty designs that marked much of what Jack did so very early in his design career.

Dismal River requires a deft touch with the putter because the greens have a good amount of contour and are "sectioned" off to mandate pinpoint control with the approaches.

In addition, the driving game requires more than simply brute power. You need to work the ball from both ways to get into the best position for the approach plays.

The facts of the course are as follows:

Championship Tees
7,624 yards
151 Slope
77.8 CR

Member Tees
6,649 yards
138 Slope
72.8 CR

Anyone contemplating the tips had best have a very low handicap and a first rate driving game in order to handle what's been created. I have to add that my day at Dismal River was simply ideal -- there was wind but far from anything more than a slight breeze.

What's interesting at Dismal River is that the drive from the existing clubhouse to the 1st tee is just under two miles. The facility does have a temporary practice area now but one that is more complete is now under construction.

I am on the road in the Yellowstone area as I write this but I will itemize each of the holes over the course of the next few days.

1st hole / 435 yards / par-4

Dynamite opening hole. Here you have a sweeping dog-leg left with a key bunker complex that stand over the left side. The carry is just under 260 yards from the tips and there are two additional bunkers down the right side for those who block the tee ball in that direction.

What's striking about the first hole is how it rewards the proper ball movement off the tee. Play a slight draw and hit over the right edge of the left hand bunker complex and the ball will runout and reach the low point in the fairway.

The putting surface is set higher than the approach and appears from fairway level to be quite narrow. However, there is plenty of room but the green is very deep and you quickly appreciate the "sectional" nature of the greens.

A solid opening hole -- just enough bite to keep you honest but not overwhelming to defeat you at the outset.

One other thing -- the quality of the turf is ideal for such a young course. The greens were very quick and th efescue fairways were cut tight and played fast.

2nd hole / 513 yards / par-4

Very demanding hole. Tee shot goes uphill to a wide landing area. The best thing to do is to favor the more penal right side -- there is a big time drop-off on that side for those who go too far that way but it's far better to land there than to go towards the safe but much longer left side. The fairway has a slight dip downhill on the right side and Nicklaus has created a superb green site -- one of many at Dismal River.

The green is tucked around a mound that guards just about the entire complex from view. Instead of being able to "locate" the target by eye you must trust your senses. The green does allow the ball to roll-on but unless you gauge the distance and roll correctly you can finish up in any sort of location and literally see your par opportunity disappear.

A first rate long par-4 because the range of options and the linkage of aerial / ground games is certainly present.

3rd hole / 187 yards / par-3

Gorgeous par-3 which often plays into a stiff breeze. The tee area is set on an ascending ridge and you play to a green located at the top of a large mound. The green is protected by a bunker to the right and there are major fall-offs in a variety of directions. The key is having the proper club because simply landing on the green gives you no guarantee of an easy two-putt.

The most unique pin placement is where it was on my visit -- back left over an elephant hump that guards th eflag like a snarling junkyard dog.

Hitting the target with a mid-to-long iron can be quite daunting if the wind is indeed at peak speed levels in one's face.

Dismal River certainly starts with a flourish with more to come.

wsmorrison

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2006, 01:46:33 PM »
"I have to add that my day at Dismal River was simply ideal -- there was wind but far from anything more than a slight breeze."

Why wouldn't an ideal day include more wind than just a slight breeze?  Are there any design components in the golf course that takes prevailing wind into account?  If so, I would guess it would be a better day with more than a slight breeze.

I expect that you'll rip me for mentioning this without seeing the course or anything resembling 60+ Nicklaus courses.  Before, during or after the ripping I trust you will addess my questions.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 01:48:33 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Scott Szabo

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2006, 02:39:42 PM »
Matt,

I've been following Dismal River with great interest.  Thanks for your initial report, and I look forward to hearing about the rest of the course.  

"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

John Kirk

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2006, 03:53:20 PM »
Matt,

I'm glad you enjoyed the course so much.

Did you walk the course, and do you think the course is reasonably walkable from the member's tees?

How fast were the greens?  The little video seemed to show smooth but medium speed greens, perfect for the contoured greens.

I assume you're visiting Yellowstrone first before, heading back south to Ballyneal.  Looking forward to the rest of the Dismla review, plus your impressions of Ballyneal.


Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2006, 05:42:48 PM »
Wayne:

Trust me -- I won't rip you. ;D

The day I played Dismal River it was nothing less than a Chamber of Commerce Day - there was wind but it was more of a non-factor than what it can be at times.

On the flip side I have found that assessing courses on a very windy day can be a bit more difficult because too often holes that are into a headwind may not play as demanding when the wind is less so -- ditto holes that play extremely easy with helping wind.

The key that has elevated the Nicklaus team in my mind is how they have evolved their thoughts on routing -- the course moves in all sorts of directions. You cannot simply hone in on one particular type of shot and believe that will suffice for the day. It won't.

Keep in mind when I say it was an ideal day wind wise there was still a breeze blowing at given moments at given points on the course. The design has calculated that element into the mixture and when I list the remaining holes I believe that point will come to the forefront.

From the standpoint of Nicklaus courses played the count is closer to 70+ and I can truthfully say that Dismal River has all the earmarkings to be on the very short list of "must plays" in the USA and certainly a key component on the evolution of the broader sand hills region.

John K:

I rode the course but I believe it can be walked if someone was so inclined. I believe the course policy will be to mandate carts in almost all instances. The club does provide, if requested, a forecaddie, to be with any group that needs one. It's not a bad thing to include.

The greens were at optimum speed when I played. They were fast but they were not Oakmont oriented speeds given the array of internal contours you face.

Personally, I like the "sectional" elements of the greens. I see that tool as a reasonable weapon at the disposal of the architect given the length people hit balls and with the development of three wedges or more in a bag.

In regards to Ballyneal -- I already played the course when I was in the neck of the woods with Dismal River. I will opine later on that layout -- in a word -- impressed to the max with the design and the vision Rupert is following.

The next three holes ...

4th hole / 596 yards / par-5

Interesting hole with the back tee on a high ridge that overlooks the fairway below. From the back tee the play is over a fairway bunker on the right side. Anything pushed too far right will meet a quick and certain death in the buffalo grass. The fairway has plenty of room on the right side and it behooves a player to swing a slight draw in order to max out the distance.

The second shot is a risk and reward situation. There is an old-fashioned western windmill that sits in front of the green but is away from the target line to the hole. A large unkept sand area is also on the same side as the windmill.

The player can play safe and hit to the far right of the fairway but the angle to the varied pin placements is quite vexing -- especially rear right where the pin was on my day there.

The green can be reached in two blows unless the wind is in one's face. Solid par-5 hole that will yield birdies but anyone thinking that Jack has provided a "welfare" hole is quite mistaken.

5th hole / 190 yards / par-3

Could arguably be the finest Nicklaus par-3 hole I have played. You tee off adjacent to the 4th green. The tee pad is set below the green complex that gives a "saddle" impression. The frontal bunker must be avoided at all costs -- it is truly deep and immune to 60 degree club plays.

The green falls abruptly back to the green for any shot that is just a smidgeon short. The green has two distinct sides and you had best be on the side the pin is located.

The range of options and the matter-of-fact manner in wich the hole presents itself is truly well done. Such a hole like this would not have been part of the Nicklaus design menu in his earliest days in the field.

6th hole / 375 yards / par-4

To the credit of Nicklaus -- Dismal River has two par-4's below 400 yards from the tips and each is stellar.

Here the 6th provides two landing areas -- one that is bowled shaped and meant to handle tee shots that can make the upper landing area which can require a carry of no less than 240 yards. There is a fairway bunker on top side and it can be carried with a solid hit provided the wind is not blowing in on the player.

The green is also deliciously angled from lower right to back left and is protected by a mound on the left side which is well placed.

Strong players can beat drivers and try to get near the bunkers that guard the front -- however, there is another false front that is simply waiting for anyone who comes up just a tad short. I hit driver and came within 30 yards of the green but my next shot was to a frontal pin that put me at a definite disadvantage although I was thaaaat close.

Again, another example at how Nicklaus and his team have added to their design skills. Too often such holes would be nothing than basic filler at many of Jack's earlier designs. The 6th at Dismal River is truly an eye-ful for all types of players and the sheer range of shots needed will always be present no matter the wind or skill of the player involved.




Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 12:27:49 AM »
The next three holes ...

7th hole / 480 yards / par-4

Could be one of the few lacking holes from a straight architectural perspective. You tee off from an elevated tee and the hole sweeps to the left. The carry of the corner is quite long -- likely in the 310-320 range so you have to play the hole honestly.

The issue is not really the hole itself but that the qualities of the other holes that have preceded it.

The green is nicely done but for me the 7th is simply more about sheer difficulty than compelling architecture.

8th hole / 363 yards / par-4

First rate option hole. Here you climb uphill with a "safe" fairway target to the right. The player can opt for the green with a tee ball but it's uphill and no less than roughly 320 in order to pull it off. Not as uniquely crafted as the 6th but still requires a range of choices for the player to make.

9th hole / 627 yards / par-5

You close out the first half with a solid par-5. Plays downhill to a sloping left-to-right fairway. The strong player can opt for the big gamble off the tee but the shot needs to be well hit. Normally, the hole plays downwind so getting home in two can happen.

Credit Jack for upping the ante with the second shot. There is a huge bunker that protects the left side of the green. The right side does provide an alleyway but it's more like a New York City alley than anything else. If you push your second too far right you have a more daunting angle to any number of pin placements.

The birdie option is certainly there -- it's just that Jack is not simply giving it away without you earning it.

 

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2006, 01:54:57 PM »
The start of the back nine begins in grand fashion.

10th hole / 200 yards / par-3

The 10th at 200 yards is the kind of par-3 design that ole-Nicklaus would not have created. Here you have the use of center-placed bunker right smack dab in the heart of the putting surface -- sort of like the par-3 6th at Riviera.

The 10th at Dismal River requires absolute command of distance from the tee because landing in the wrong area of the target will cost you big -- even really big if things aren't executed properly.

The shot is slightly uphill and the green offers frontal pin placements with the center-placed bunker coming into play from either position.

If the pin is placed in the rear of the green you need to fire in with an extra club to be ABSOLUTELY certain you are beyond the terrors it provides. The green is well crafted and the pleasure in playing the hole will be there time after time.

A grand start to the back nine.

11th hole / 438 yards / par-4

Another winning hole. Here you encounter an uphill hole which offers a "target" bunker down the right side. The player who favors the aggressive play can take his tee shot directly over the heart of that bunker and if properly struck the tee shot will runout through a nifty created corridor you would see either in Ireland or Scotland.

The key is that should you pull the driver slightly it's very possible you can run out of run down the left side as the fairway ends abruptly at roughly 280-290 yards. Anything that deep can run into the narly stuff that doesn't spit out golf balls easily or often.

The gem of the hole goes even further than the tee shot. The green features a frontal bunker that must be seen to be believed. It is well placed and well created. The green slopes away from the player and should the pin be placed in the front right or left it will take a herculean approach to hang close to the target.

The 11th at Dismal River forces a myriad of choices for the player. Choose wisely indeed.

12th hole / 587 yards / par-5

A muscle par-5 hole. The tee shot is elevated and you have a turning left fairway which forces the decision on just how close you wish to play the turning point. If you can carry the hill it does propel the ball a bit further but the slope can present some interestinf lies for your second shot. The green is nestled above the fairway with a series of bunkers nicely placed. The more you opt away from the green down the left side the more a greenside bunker will influence the 3rd shot.

A birdie hole only if executed with care.

The most controversial hole on the course follows and I'll opine on it and the next three when time allows.

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 08:42:46 PM »
The middle three holes at Dismal River are a unique lot.

13th hole / 450 yards / par-4

The controversial hole that needs to be changed and there are plans to do such after this season concludes. Here you have a slight dog-leg left and the terrain slopes that direction in a very severe manner. Staying on the fairway is no small feat. To complicate matters the green is also sloped that same way and few approaches can mange to avoid being swept off in that direction.

The plans call for a leveling down of a major slope to the right of the green and the putting surface to be moved a bit closer to the tee with a bit less slope from right-to-left.

The 13th can easily destroy a round because of its existing severe nature. I still think highly of Dismal River but clearly the 13th can leave a sour taste in one's mouth. The correction will indeed be most interesting to see when completed.

14th hole / 529 yards / par-4

One of the weaker holes IMHO from an architectural front. Here Nicklaus has borrowed a Rees Jones item -- the bowled fairway which tends to level out any shot missed from either side. The hole plays downhill and then back uphill to the green. Whether you fade or draw the ball doesn't matter -- the containment mounding simply equates all shots the same. A pity.

The approach is much, much better. Set high above the fairway you have to avoid a deep bunker that guards the front -- in addition -- the green is sloped very well to penalize the indifferent approach.

15th hole / 184 yards / par-3

Likely the weakest of the par-3 holes at Dismal River but still challenging. You tee off towards a canyon area with the green pitched from right-to-left. The front pin area is quite demanding because of the smaller landing area.

If the pin is cut to the top right then the real teeth of the hole will show.

The final trio comes next ...

T.J. Sturges

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 09:08:48 PM »
Calling Dr. Katz...

Jim Nugent

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2006, 04:02:31 PM »
I'd like to see Ran do a course profile of Dismal River, partly to contrast with its nearby neighbor, to show the similarities/differences between two courses in the Sand Hills.  Does the region lend itself to infinite variety among courses?

Matt, you probably played Sand Hills.  Are the courses at all alike, real different, how would you compare them?

Thomas_Brown

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2006, 04:20:13 PM »
Matt - is 13 so severe that you lose balls off the tee?

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 07:39:25 PM »
Tom:

The short answer is yes.

Balls can be lost to the left side because of the existing pitch. It needs to be altered and the folks there -- including the Nicklaus team know this and plan to correct it shortly.

Jim N:

Dismal River and Sand Hills will inevitably draw comments not unlike other famous pairs like SH and NGLA, Pebble & Cypress, etc, etc.

Clearly, some people will not like Dismal because the name Nicklaus is associated with it. C&C is a favored duo on this site and I have no doubt about the greatness of Sand Hills. However, with that said, the demands on Dismal River are even greater because of what they are following in the likes of Sand Hills.

To use a movie metaphor if Sand Hills is Godfather I than Dismal River is Godfather II IMHO. It is a tremendous accomplishment for Jack and his design team and once the issues are resolved with hole #13 I believe it will be a clear "must play" when in the area.

The Nicklaus approach is clearly more demanding from the tee game perspective then Sand Hills. You must shape shots off the tee and hit the ball a reasonable distance on many of the holes. The C&C approach is more of a less is more style at Sand Hills and clearly it is a gem that needs no further remarks on my side.

However, Dismal River is quite fair and provides a wealth of options on nearly every hole. I give Jack immense credit in expanding his range of thought on design and you can see the results in the finished product there.

I'm set to return home and can provide the final three holes when I get back.

Tom Huckaby

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 07:55:38 PM »
Matt:

Part of the greatness of Sand Hills is that from the tips (double diamonds) there are quite a few VERY demanding tee shots with massive carries required, and from the middle tees the demands are less, but the rewards are likely more (ie some par 4s become driveable, par 5s way more reachable, working the ball side to side gets more rewards).  I've called it Shinnecock from the tips, NGLA from the middles.  That is, test from the tips, fun fun fun from the middles.

Does Dismal River have any elements of that?  You seem to have just described the course from the tips, and it sounds plenty challenging.  Does it also have the fun factor?

TH

Steve Lapper

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 09:54:18 PM »
Matt,

    Have you actually played Sand Hills from the tips, and if so, when?? On this trip?? Past?? Just wondering.


PS.....with any meaningful wind???
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 09:54:39 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

cary lichtenstein

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2006, 05:56:58 AM »
Matt:

You got 25 rounds to split between Sand Hills, Dismal River and Ballyneal, how do you split them?

Cary
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 05:57:31 AM by cary lichtenstein »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mike Policano

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2006, 10:44:17 AM »
Matt, I am looking forward to the rest of your write-up.  A couple of questions.  The 10th green is maybe 45-50 yards long?  I only played it twice and miraculously shot par each time (thanks to a front pin).

The section of the green behind the bunker seemed to dip down at least the height of one Matt Ward.  I threw three balls down the bowl and tried to putt up the incline to the front pin.  I confirmed that I am a short hitter and failed three times to hit the putt up the hill.

Are there more than a couple of pin positions behind the bunker and do you think the green would be even better if the bowl was not so deep?

Regarding 13, I am glad to hear that changes are in order.  A very difficult fairway to hit and hold especially for a fading lefty.  There appeared to me to be a hole sitting adjacent to the 13th to the left of the fairway that was less severe.  Do you think the current greensite dictated the hole as currently configured?

John Kirk

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2006, 10:50:50 AM »
Yes Cary, my question is similar.  Matt is taking the trouble to prepare a detailed hole-by-hole description of Dismal River, and though he intends to prepare a review of Ballyneal at a later date, I'd conclude he likes Dismal River better than Ballyneal.  I like Ballyneal better, but as a member of the club that's not surprising.

I haven't played Dismal River yet, but I toured the facility last fall, and had a real good chance to see the golf course.  I thought it looked hard as a pistol, enormous in scope, and filled with spectacularly quirky features.  It is well worth playing and seeing.

Some other second hand reports:  The bent greens and fescue fairways are growing in beautifully.  Greens are smooth and rolling around  9.  The club features a large and impressive clubhouse.  Plans are already in place for a second course.

Matt, did you like Dismal better than Ballyneal?  If so, why?  If you only played one ball through the course, what did you shoot, or how many pars and birdies did you make?

If you did in fact like Dismal River better as a golf course, I believe this further cements your reputation here on GCA as a critic enamored with difficulty.  I'd also say that remark extends to Jack Nicklaus.  Both Sebonack and Pronghorn have an early reputation for difficulty.  Perhaps this is a sound strategy, since top players continue to play at a consistently higher level.

I thought Jack Nicklaus' remark about "golfers will go anywhere to get punished" was very telling.  He knew Dismal River was very difficult.  And maybe that's the point.  There are probably hundreds of thousands of golfers like Matt, who desire the grand challenge.  I like to be challenged, but not in the extreme.  I want to relax and enjoy a beautiful walk in the park with my friends.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2006, 11:00:19 AM »
John:  do you know will be designing the 2nd course at DR?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Greg Tallman

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2006, 11:23:19 AM »
Here we go...

Jack did it - Must be too hard - Can't be great.

Welcome to GCA.

Is everyone on this site stuck in the 1980's?

Apologies but the same old tired attacks on those not "in favor" here are getting... well... old and tired.


ForkaB

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2006, 11:27:54 AM »
Greg

Give this group a break!

We are stuck in the 1920's, thank you!

Rich

PS--except for those who are stuck in the 1880's and those who are just, well, just stuck...... ;)

Tom Huckaby

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2006, 11:30:28 AM »
I'm with Greg here, at least sort of.  Let's let Matt - and whoever else has played Dismal River, SH and Ballyneal - weigh in completely before we pre-judge.

I was just asking questions personally.  From Matt's review, I'm seeing a lot of difficulty but not much fun factor.  But I could be wrong as Matt could have just not focused on that.

TH

Adam Clayman

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2006, 11:40:00 AM »
Greg, NO no no, Here WE go again.

Jumping the gun, assuming questions are commentary is the only "old tired attacks" on this thread.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Geoffrey Childs

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2006, 11:59:08 AM »
Matt

Thanks for taking the time to give us your views on Dismal River

Since Mike P and Matt have played the course I'd be curious to know if almost all the shots at DR are from side hill, uphill or downhill stances whitout much in the way of level lies.  Its also one of my real disappointments with modern courses like the new Glashedy course at Ballyliffin (next edit) that the bulldozers seemed to flaten out the wrinkles in the land to create flat lies where they would otherwise be more interesting.

Is there any evidence of the hand of man on the fairways at DR or have they been left alone?

That is one of the great subtle features that add to difficulty in a very good way in my opinion and a characteristic of the great links and links-like courses.

Thanks
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 03:15:38 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

John Kirk

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Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2006, 01:37:01 PM »
I'm anxious to weigh in further on this.  Back in a few hours after some yard work.

Geoff, to the best of my recollection, there are plenty of flat lies to be had.  Good land with a good variety of holes.  Not much sand moved around; it appears the minimalistic design philosophy was embraced at Dismal River.

Greg, I was trying to make a balanced post on the subject.  Adam Clayman and I can't help but have a bias here.  But we're also very interested in the Dismal River course.  Perhaps a separate, general thread on the subject "Can a very difficult course be a great course?" is merited.

Back in a bit.

Jim Nugent

Re:My Day at Dismal River
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2006, 01:50:49 PM »
Greg

Give this group a break!

We are stuck in the 1920's, thank you!

Rich

PS--except for those who are stuck in the 1880's and those who are just, well, just stuck...... ;)

Rich, in which group would you put yourself?  

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