[Andrew Cunningham]

Cary's post on Highlands Links got me thinking: If a potential visitor to Canada with the ability to play only one round with no restrictions on price, location, or exclusivity asked you what course represents the Ultimate Canadian Golf Experience, where would you recommend he/she go play?

Having played many of the "great" courses Canada has to offer coast to coast, and just recently having played Banff Springs two days after the Canadian Skins Game my recommendation would be Banff Springs.  To me it is one of the all time great courses of the world located in arguably the greatest setting in the world.  Even without the scenery this course would be a must play.  Almost 80 years later it still has some of the best strategically placed bunkers I've ever seen.  No two holes are alike and other than an unfortunate routing change, this course is an absolute gem to play.

In the past conditioning was always a huge issue at Banff, but with the Skins game came a tremendous reversal in effort and investment.  If you have the chance in your lifetime to visit this little slice of heaven I guarantee you will not be disappointed.

Thoughts?

[PThomas]

Banff is on my world top 10 list of courses - including private ones - that I hope to play some day

[Kerry Gray]

Andrew,
I was at Banff a few days before the Skins Game and while I had heard that conditioning was usually an issue I came away impressed. But I have also seen moose/deer damage at Bigwin Island and nobody seems to talk about that.
My trip to Alberta was a round a Banff springs, two at Jasper Park and the final day at Kananaskis.
I would not want to take anything away from Highlands Links which I hope to visit next summer, but for beauty it is hard to imagine someplace more impressive than the Canadian Rockies.
Banff was impressive layout with great use of the land and the usual strong par 3's. Loved the bunkering and interesting short par 5's.
Jasper, while a easier course is at another level in my mind. The course looks so natural and the use of the contours and routing is truly outstanding. Hard to imagine a course with a better set of par 3's. Jasper has limited bunkering and holes like #3, #8, and #16 are the better for it. The severe contours of the fairway are enough to add interest to the hole. Perhaps the most fun course I have ever played.
Kananaskis (Mt Kidd) was a dull layout aside from a few holes like #14. Some of the par 3's were bad and #4 is awefully out of place in that setting.
So I would say that any trip through the Calgary-Banff-Jasper-Edmonton loop would be hard to beat.
Although Banff and Jasper are separated by a three hour drive, it is one of the most scenic drives you will find.
Other courses in the loop worth considering.
Stewart Creek
Blackhawk
Calgary Golf and CC
Mayfair
Etc.
for a modern experience Muskoka is not bad either.

[cary lichtenstein]

Andrew:

We have been thru Western Canada. The beauty of the Canadian Rockies is unmatched...every mountain seems to have its own character, distintive face. Hard to keep your eyes on the road.

Banff Springs without a doubt was the highlight, but we enjoyed Lake Louise, Jasper Park, the moose as well as Whistler.

In Whistler, the only course we would recommend without any reservations is Chateau Whistler.

In Vancouver, we loved Capilano.

This should not be taken to denigrate the Highland Links experience. I would think that just as a golfing experience, one course without the hotel/scenery, Highland Links is the best, but you really need to do all of the above.

Today we head for Montreal, Quebec City and the Laurentines.

Next year we plan to visit Toronto to complete our Canadian experience. I understand it there are wonderful courses there.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Cary,

I'm curious as to where you are playing in Montreal and Quebec City?

Andrew

[Robert Thompson]

Andrew: I actually think it might be a toss up between Jasper and Highlands. Both Thompson courses, both great. That said, I've been to Highlands three times and I get a feeling there unlike any other place in this great country....

[John Foley]

Cary,

What we're the reservations about the rest of Whistler?

Did you see Nicklaus North?

JF

[Bob Jenkins]

John, Cary

Whistler has 3 courses, Whistler Golf Club (a Palmer/Seay) which was the first, Chateau Whistler (RTJ Jr.) and Nicklaus North. The Chateau has severe elevation changes but is a very interesting course. I think it is one of the better "mountain" courses. Several short par 4s on the back are really interesting. Fun course.

Nicklaus North is quite flat. To me and to many others it seems contrived. There is a par 3 which is all carry which makes you think of 17 at TPC Sawgrass which is about as contrived as you can get. Some good holes. Not sure why it does not stand out but it just doesnt inspire, in spite of the setting.

The Palmer course is great fun and I understand they have made some improvements.

The course you cannot miss in that area is Big Sky which is in Pemberton, about 25 minutes past Whistler. A Cupp design.

[Ian Andrew]

Jasper Park

Stanley Thompson at his best in one of the greatest settings in golf. Banff is far too crowded for my taste. Highland may be a better golf course but not by much. Jasper is a far more spectacular place to be and has more to do than the isolation at Ingonish.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Cary's post on Highlands Links got me thinking: If a potential visitor to Canada with the ability to play only one round with no restrictions on price, location, or exclusivity asked you what course represents the Ultimate Canadian Golf Experience, where would you recommend he/she go play?

But if he/she desired to play several fantastic courses then the destination would be Toronto where they could play many good Golden Era courses (St. Georges, Toronto GC, Hamilton, Weston, Summit, Scarboro) as well as excellent modern courses (Devil's Paintbrush/Pulpit, The National, Eagle's Nest, etc)

[cary lichtenstein]

Andrew:

Playing at Mt Tremblatt, Le Maitre and Le Diablo

Cary

[Kerry Gray]

Just to be clear, Andrew's original post asks for one course.
Jasper in my limited exposure.

Cary,
I'll take Bigwin Island, Taboo, Rocky Crest (Ontario Muskoka region) over the Tremblant area anytime.
I have not seen Muskoka Bay yet but I suspect it is very good as well and Ian worked extensively on the project as you may know.
Bigwin (Carrick) is high on the "fun" scale similar to Jasper Park. Taboo is a fine Garl course with several strong holes. Rocky Crest is one of the better McBroom designs.
Nothing wrong with the Tremblant region, just think Muskoka region is a slightly better.
Hope your enjoying your visit.

[Dave Kemp]

Before I became interested in the finer points of gca and found this site I had "heard" of Highlands Links.  Afterwards I dragged my family 500 km away from our PEI family vacation last summer to make sure we could play one round at HL.  I often think of that single round, played with my father and then 14 year old son, with very fond memories.  In fact just tonight in a casual conversation with my better half the topic of HL came up (don't even remember how) and I concluded the discussion by saying if I could get on a plane tomorrow and get there to play again I would.

In the context of full disclosure I have not played either Jasper or Banff (yet).  I did play Capilano this spring and HL wins out IMHO.

[Matthew MacKay]

Canada is too big a country to pick one quintesential experience.

Ideally it's a west to east trip...

Capilano for its west coast mountain setting and proximity to downtown. Canada is, after all (despite the stereotypes) a largely urban country

Banff/Jasper for the Rocky Mountains/moose/bears/pick another Canadian stereotype

Dakota Dunes in Saskatchewan for the rolling prairies on a long summer day

Get bitten by huge mesquitos at Hecla GC in Manitoba

The many excellent courses in Muskoka (what we call 'cottage country') followed by a cool dip in the lake, BBQ, and sunset boat cruise

A couple days in Toronto to play Hamilton, Toronto Golf, and St. Georges, and to experience the most multicultural city in the world

Royal Ottawa to hobnob with government types and a visit to the parliament buildings when the house is sitting

A quiet round at Mt. Bruno followed by a loud night in Montreal

Royal Quebec followed by a fine French meal at Chateau Frontenac

Crowbush Cove in PEI and then a long walk on the beach

36 hole match play at Highlands Links, dinner at Keltic Lodge, and top it off with a night of fiddle music at the 'local'

[Andrew Cunningham]

Although not perhaps the Ultimate Canadian Golf Experience, The Ridge at Manitou has just raised the bar for Muskoka area golf.  I've played almost every Tom McBroom course of note and although I've been critical of several of his newest designs for their lack of originality and creativity, The Ridge seems like it was done by someone else.  

I haven't played Oviinbyrd (another new McBroom Muskoka course) but if it's anything like The Ridge he'll have two new courses that easily trump the likes of Lake Joseph and Rocky Crest.  And I'm a long time supporter of Rocky Crest as the "ultimate" Muskoka golf experience.  If The Ridge wasn't so far away I would seriously consider shelling out the sizeable initiation to play there on a regular basis.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I have not played Highland Links, but Jasper Park is one great golf experience.

[henrye]

Although not perhaps the Ultimate Canadian Golf Experience, The Ridge at Manitou has just raised the bar for Muskoka area golf.  I've played almost every Tom McBroom course of note and although I've been critical of several of his newest designs for their lack of originality and creativity, The Ridge seems like it was done by someone else.  

Well the ridge must be pretty good if it just raised the bar, because I thought the golf up here was already pretty good.  Andrew, which new McBroom courses did you find lacking in originality and creativity?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Henry,

I don't like to openly criticize any one course for fear of offending those who may read my comments.  What I like and don't like is a matter of opinion, not meant to belittle or degrade any course of reference.  My post was meant to be a sincere compliment to Mr. McBroom and his crew as I believe The Ridge at Manitou to be that good.  As I understand it it was meant to be a member's course only and at 6800 from the tips it is a refreshing change from the 7500+ back tees I've played lately.

I could name several newer McBroom courses that IMHO could have gone with a relative unknown and ended up with a similar result.  But is this a direct fault of Tom McBroom, I'm not sure.  Most courses have outside constraints and influence that affect their final design, few of which the golfer will ever be aware of or frankly understand.  So is it fair to overly criticize one over the other probably not.  And does anyone really care what I think, I doubt it.  But when I see a product that appears to the untrained eye to be something really special I think this forum is the ideal place to spread the word.  If you're ever as fortunate as I was to play The Ridge at Manitou I'm would love to here your comments.

[Robert Thompson]

Andrew: Interesting comments. I actually think Tom's work is getting much better in recent years, which is why I think HenryE is perplexed by your remarks. New courses like Firerock, Wildfire, Oviinbyrd, Ambassador and The Raven, show real progression. All are walkable and his bunker style is becoming more defined and distinctive. I don't really think your comment that a "relative unknown" could have done the work makes sense unless you give some indication of what you are speaking about. What's your concern? I don't think McBroom reads the site, if that helps....

[Andrew Cunningham]

Robert,

I haven't played Oviinbyrd or The Raven yet so I cannot comment on those two but I would say that one of the other new McBroom designs you mentioned was disappointing.  But as I mentioned previously I've always been reluctant to openly criticize any design because I have no idea about what factors beyond Tom's control influenced the final product.  I can judge it against my own standard of what I thought could have been done or against another course but is it really fair to criticize Tom directly, I'm not sure.  

My comment about a relative unknown is based on my belief that there is a lot of new talent in the GCA business who if given the opportunity could produce a distinctive fresh looking product equal to that of more established veterans however that is not necessarily a knock against McBroom.  I could make that comment about some of Jack’s recent work.  But again maybe the client wants a certain look, a certain "signature design" that they feel would help fill the tee sheet.  Who knows?  

Ironically golfers have a greater choice of product today than ever before – public or private.  Competition is a wonderful thing that we have benefited from immensely.  Ten to fifteen years ago there would have been what 5 – 6 new courses opening a year in Canada, and of those maybe 2 or 3 were of a relative high quality.  The last 12 months has seen approximately 17 or so grand openings, with probably 15 really solid golf courses to add to an already first-rate golf course market.  If new projects want to compete I think they would benefit by considering other “relative unknowns” like perhaps Steve Young who produced a wonderful product at Grey Silo in Waterloo, ON.  Whatever Steve received in compensation for Grey Silo (which I assume was considerably less than say someone with a resume like Tom McBroom) it was bargain relative to the product delivered.

[Tom Forsythe]

My top 3 would be Highlands Links, Jasper and Banff

[Tim Bert]

I've only played two courses in Canada.  Anyone that has played either Banff Springs or Furry Creek ought to be able to figure out with relative ease which of the two is my favorite!

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

TomF,
Good to see you man. Certainly you had your exposure to HL.

Highlands above the others, because:
- diversity of the seaside and mountain setting.
- wide array of terrain throughout the land.
-  better collection of great holes.
- stretch of 7-13 is magical and yet 16 provides the most unique view looking back I can think of.
- plus it is the best course of the bunch...

[Andrew Cunningham]

Ben,

How is Cabot Links coming along?  Have you begun construction?

Thanks,


Andrew

[Mike Policano]

Andrew,

I have only played a dozen Canadian courses and I haven't played Highland.  I would choose Banff over Jasper.

The bunkering is fabulous in placement and design.  Number 4, the Devil's Cauldron is a great par 3.  

But can't they leave a cart to get you from 14 - 15?    

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