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Did any of you guys watch the British Open..

350 yard drives? Who?

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on August 15, 2006, 09:51:36 PM

Did any of you guys watch the British Open..

JakaB,

I didn't know that British Open courses were considered part of the PGA Tour.[/color]

Why wouldn't they be?

Patrick,

Doesn't anything that increases the carry and reduces the roll of the ball tend to mute architectural features?  The architecture is meaningless while your ball is in the air flying over it, it is only when it strikes the earth that it may interface with the architecture.

The modern ball combined with the modern driver has completely altered the ideal trajectory of a tee shot, so it has a much larger portion of its total distance in the air with much less roll than before.  Its a lot easier to avoid flying into a fairway bunker than it is to avoid rolling into one, especially over land that is not flat.

Here's one for you to ponder.  Was it the American obsession with green grass and lush uniform rough that caused overwatered conditions making the ground game less desireable that led to clubs being designed for more carry (sole weighted irons and fairway woods, hybrids, lob wedges) or did the conditioning follow the changes in equipment over the years?

Here's one for you to ponder.  Was it the American obsession with green grass and lush uniform rough that caused overwatered conditions making the ground game less desireable that led to clubs being designed for more carry (sole weighted irons and fairway woods, hybrids, lob wedges) or did the conditioning follow the changes in equipment over the years?

Doug I think your observation is spot on (I read it as a rhetorical question) and the relationship between the two is symbiotic.

I recently played Brora with Bill Dow, I was struck by the difference between my Big Bertha Irons and his Hogan Blades.  Playing on the links a topped shot is not the biggest problem, often they can travel just as far. Indeed it’s often an advantage to hit the lower ball.  But which clubs would I want if I had to play over the water features prevalent on the PGA tour?

Doug Siebert,

I believed they developed independent of one another.

Green, lush conditions were around 36 years ago.

The hi-tech phenomenon is a more current development based on some simple facts.  One being that mortar or howitzer like trajectory is needed in order to maximize distance, and that it's better to approach a green with a shorter, rather than a longer club.

JakaB,

Who runs the British Open, The PGA Tour or the R&A ?

Would you say that the conditions in the UK parallel the conditions in California, Arizona, Texas and Florda ?

Throw in Illiinois, NY and NJ in the summer as well ?

Who runs the British Open, The PGA Tour or the R&A ?

 

Patrick - Who runs The Masters? Who runs the US Open?  Your examples were Augusta and Winged Foot... when have either ever hosted a "PGA Tour Event"?

First of all - who cares about defining what a PGA Tour event is?  Everyone knows what Pat Mucci is talking about and it is an interesting question.

A few thoughts:

1.  It might be illuminating to test his hypothesis against Shotlink data, which I no longer have, to see if players do generally try and play for position or just hit it long and not care about angles.  I let my subscription expire and cannot do so.

2.  Playing the TPC at Sawgrass last winter, I was surprised at how narrow the fairways were - probably around 25 yards on most holes.  I do not see how there would me much marginal value in playing for a particular side of the fairway given that narrow of a space.

3.  Playing in a tournament with a couple of club pros that were friends from childhood last weekend showed me how much the golf swing has changed, probably as a result of technology.  Both of these guys are about 40 and hit the ball in the classic persimmon era swing - a full swing from the inside with a draw that ocassionally is blocked right or hooks too much.  Nether plays a lot any more with a full lesson schedule and other pro shop duties.  

The modern swing generally seems to have a much shorter backswing, a more violent downswing and a straight ball flight.  The flight of the shots of my friends did not look nearly as effective to my eye as some I have seen with a more modern swing.  It was the first time I have realized that technology has changed the method of swinging the club.  To me it appears as dramatic of a change as the transformation from hickory to steel (Bob Jones/Byron Nelson).  

I think it is my first time feeling like I am a part of a dinasaur era.

Doug Siebert,

I believed they developed independent of one another.

Green, lush conditions were around 36 years ago.

The hi-tech phenomenon is a more current development based on some simple facts.  One being that mortar or howitzer like trajectory is needed in order to maximize distance, and that it's better to approach a green with a shorter, rather than a longer club.

JakaB,

Who runs the British Open, The PGA Tour or the R&A ?

Would you say that the conditions in the UK parallel the conditions in California, Arizona, Texas and Florda ?

Throw in Illiinois, NY and NJ in the summer as well ?

Pat,

If you are not scared..Come back Monday and will discuss the role of the long iron in championship golf.  I think they are holding a tournament in Illinois this week that I doubt I will watch but should get some of these guys going.  This is a very recent trend and I can't blame you if you are still a bit behind the curve.

It might be illuminating to test his hypothesis against Shotlink data, which I no longer have, to see if players do generally try and play for position or just hit it long and not care about angles.

I was at the International this last weekend, and posted on another thread an observation I made about the way players were tackling the 10th hole.

If a player drove to the left side of the fairway, and a little short of "driver length," they'd get a flat lie with a look down the lenghth of the green, without having to hit it over a fronting pond and bunker.

But almost without fail, the players were playing down the right side, and just long enough to be on a downslope, resulting in a downhill lie over the aforementioned pond and bunker.

A shot that they were routinely able to make, I must hasten to add...........

Barney --

You mention the "top 100 shots hit in championship golf history."  Where can we find this list?  

Does it not include the wedge shots hit by Larry Mize (Masters), Bob Tway (PGA), or Tom Watson (US Open)?  

How about the putts of Jack Nicklaus (1980 US Open on #17, ? Year Masters on #16 and 1986 Masters on #17), Nick Price (? Year British Open at Turnberry), Phil Mickelson (2004 Masters on #18) or Hale Irwin (? Year US Open on #18 at Medinah)?

Or maybe the greatest -- Bobby Jones putt on #18 at Winged Foot to tie Al Espinosa whom he later beat in a playoff.