[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

Be curious if anyone has info on any new courses that have opened in the west range of the Rockies in Colorado ?  There always seems to be things happening.

I have heard from a few sources about a facility called Adams Rib Ranch -- adamsribranch.com. Does anyone know more about this ?

If there are others please forward the info to this thread.

Thanks ...

P.S. I am aware of The Bridges in Montrose and The Club at Flying Horse just outside of Colorado Springs.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt

Last year when I was in CO, I read about a RTJ2 residential club in the Vail Valley- Brightwater.Supposed to open in 2007. Here is the website:

www.brightwaterclub.com

Snowmass in Aspen was recently redone by Engh.

Steve

[Kyle Henderson]

I just played Lakota Canyon Ranch (opened in 2004 I believe) while visiting family near Glenwood Springs. It's a fantastic Jim Engh layout, although housing is starting to intrude upon the views around the back nine. ]

I'll post some pics once I have time to figure out a posting method.

[Matt_Ward]

Kyle:

No disrespect but Lakota has been mentioned a good bit by many people -- including myself as I have been to the site no less than three times. Ditto the times Cary and his wife have been there. It is a superb public course and I believe along with Norman's layout at Red Sky Ranch two that are certainly worth playing when in the general area.

Steve:

Thanks for the link ...

P.S. I played Snowmass last year -- decent effort from Engh but he had to deal with a very cramped location.

[Kirk Gill]

I've heard few reviews of the Stadler/Davis design at Grand Elk in Granby, CO. There are apparently a lot of wetlands and such to cross, and visually the course did not wow my friends who played there. Doesn't qualify as "new," as it's been open for about four years, but I've not heard much comment on it.

I also wonder about Cornerstone, a Greg Norman design out around Ouray. If I remember correctly, it isn't slated to open until next year.

[Matt_Ward]

Kirk:

Thanks on Grand Elk, however, Lakota and Norman's Red Sky are miles beyond it.

[cary lichtenstein]

Matt:

Bette and I toured Jim's new course in Colorado Springs the other day, the Harmony Club. It opens sometime next year.

A very good effort considering it is mostly farmland with 2 especially good holes, 14 and 15 I think, where there is a river, ravine and creek mixed with some trees.

While Jim has not changed his style much, he has perfected the art of presenting you with ferocious looking bunkers that pretty much dictate where not to hit the ball. I think there is lots of eye candy, forced carries, blind shots, etc., that will make for a good golf course.

It does not have his typical dramatic elevation changes.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Cornerstone has great scenic pictures on the website:

www.cornerstonecolorado.com

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

For some reason I can't access the site of Norman's latest effort -- is the ocurse opened yet or is that down the pike.

Thanks ...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt

That's the correct URL.

Here's an article from golfcoursenews.com:

www.golfcoursenews.com/news/news.asp?ID=2503

[SPDB]

Matt - I think you mean the Front Range. Not familiar with the West Range.

[Matt_Ward]

SPDB:

My understanding is that the term Front Range is the mountains that overlook the immediate Denver, Colorado Springs area.

I'm referring to those courses that are on the far side.

If my understanding of the term is in error I'll be happy to update to the proper usage.

[Kirk Gill]

Here on the front range we refer to that side of the mountains as the "Western Slope."

[Adam Clayman]

Western Slope is the colloquial. Of that I'm sure.

Those, I'm making up...

Front range is east of Denver.

Foothills are west of Denver and east of the mountains.

[Matt_Ward]

Kirk:

Thanks for the correction.

Would you know if the Cornerstone Club is now open ?

Be very interested to know if any reviews of it have appeared in Avid Golfer.

[Adam Clayman]

Matt,

Read what the man took the time to write in his initial post

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

I did read it -- re-read what I asked -- was there a preview in Avid Golfer because they do provide some interesting analysis -- even if its very early.

[Kirk Gill]

My understanding is that they'll open next summer. Their site mentions seeding and sodding this summer. There are some pictures of the construction phase of the course at the Weitz Golf site:

http://www.weitzgolf.com/projects/golf-courses-underway/

Interesting to see how the course will develop. The views will certainly be stunning.

[Matt_Ward]

Kirk:

I have to wonder from a marketing standpoint if it pays to have two Norman designs (Red Sky Ranch and now Cornerstone) be so relatively near each other?

Clearly, other architects favor trying to keep a healthy distance between sites in order to avoid one being constantly played off the other.

Your thoughts ...

[Adam Clayman]

Would you know if the Cornerstone Club is now open ?

Here is your only question.

BTW, When do you play BN?
I'm considering joining you so we can discuss many things.

Plus, I want to see you bomb it.

[Matt_Ward]

It seems there is now a push for new golf in the Telluride area -- has any movement continued in the Steamboat Springs area.

I've played a few in that area and wanted to see what others who may know think.

[Rick Phelps]

Hey Matt, et al:
Here's what I've heard most recently:

There are, in fact, two projects under construction in the Eagle/Gypsum area west of Vail.  Adam's Rib, Weiskopf, and Brightwater, RTJ2.  Both will likely be opening next summer.

Justin Leonard is teaming with Tripp Davis on a new course that just started construction north of Grand Elk about 5 miles.  The name slips my mind at the moment, but it's going to be a big golf/fishing resort combo with money and marketing from Orvis.

Cornerstone will open next summer.  I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds like it will be very dramatic -- and very remote.  The site is about 30 minutes southwest of Montrose.  If you look on a map, you'll see it's pretty much out there by itself.  For those who were thinking that it's close to Red Sky, it's at least a two hour drive between the two.

I am hearing that Nicklaus will also be doing a project near Cornerstone, but I have a tough time thinking that they will both thrive in that location.

There has been talk in both Telluride and Steamboat for years, but I don't think there are any projects that are very "real" at this point.  The other area where there is quite a bit of "buzz" is the upper Arkansas River valley, near Salida and Buena Vista.  IMHO, one of the few places in Colorado that are underserved for golf -- and absolutely beautiful to boot!

Hope this helps.

Rick

[Kirk Gill]

I have to wonder from a marketing standpoint if it pays to have two Norman designs (Red Sky Ranch and now Cornerstone) be so relatively near each other?

An interesting question. I can't say that I'm "in the know" about either development, but there do appear to be some differences.

I must say that Cornerstone will be much more off the beaten track than Red Sky Ranch. The development is roughly between Montrose and Ridgway, and while Highway 550 is one of the prettiest drives in Colorado, it gets a lot less traffic than Interstate 70. Red Sky Ranch is a straight shot from Denver, and Cornerstone is not. Also, the Cornerstone development is around 6,500 acres all-told, while Red Sky is more like 700. There is, perhaps, more variety in the size of properties available at Cornerstone, for what that's worth.

By all accounts I've read, the Norman course at Red Sky Ranch is a good one (there is also a Fazio there that I have not heard much about on this board). If the new Norman course at Cornerstone is a good/great one, then it seems to me that the differences between the developments themselves will provide the marketing people their material more than the designer of the golf course will. There are several Nicklaus courses in the Vail Valley, if I remember correctly (which also aren't discussed much on this board). I don't know if the proximity of those courses has slowed the marketing of those communities or courses..........

[Matt_Ward]

Kirk:

Of all the public courses I have played in Colorado I would place Lakota Canyon in New Castle and Norman's Red Sky Ranch in Wolcott at the top of the parade. I am aware that Red Sky Ranch is not 100% in that they rotate play between the Norman and the TF layouts. In fact, the TF layout is quite good although in a number of spots you get the mailed-in TF preferred look.

Good points on the remote factor because you are 100000% correct on highway 550 versus the traffic pattern on I-70.

If Cornerstone is indeed beyond his work at Red Sky Ranch then you are talking about a bonafide top 100 course in the USA. I know -- before the barks begin -- that until the course opens everything prior is simply guesswork.

I'm looking forward to when the course opens.

[Adam Clayman]

Ouray, also know as "Little Switzerland", is one of the most quaint western towns. Steep roofs and steeper terrain gives the area a unique American look.

Kirk is right, most regional, "thinking" people will not even go over the mountain between Sept. and May. My last time through there was a Labor day weekend. It was snowing at that altitude. But even worse, was the rain at the lower altitudes, getting up there. Since this labor day rain was one of the first coming-on the ending of the drought conditions, rock slides were repleat, litering the two lane winding road with rocks of all sizes. The lethal ones caught my minds eye, and brought me closer to death than the round at Devils Thumb was worth.  No reflection on your wonderful effort there, Rick.

So, the shortish season should impact the financials, greatly.

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