Newport National

« **on:** August 02, 2006, 11:27:28 AM »

John...read your post under Arthur Hills links courses and you mentioned you were going to start a thread on NN after some thought. I was going to respond there but decided to beat you to the punch, so to speak, so rather than posting on that thread thought it made sense to start this. NN has been discussed on occassion here with positives but not that I can recall in any depth.

I too liked it better than Redtail and that is not a put down of Redtail. One way I judge courses is how memorable are the holes and after playing Newport National I was able to remember each hole distinctly. NN offers great variety. Holes go in different directions, some greens are elevated but most allow run ups being relatively level with fairways, most fairways bend with some doglegs and some are straight, greens are undulating but not overdone, wind is almost always a factor, options are prevelant on how to play holes, it is very walkable, etc. etc. .Greens fees for locals are also not bad, especially after 2 early in the week - $65. Out of area pricey at $125/$150. Overall NN is among the best that NE has to offer for public golf.

It does not have one purely outstanding holes imo but all holes are solid without a weak one and that is preferable. My favorite is likely 5 which is 296 from the tees I play and 327 from the very back with traps guarding the driving area on the left. Long hitters may be tempted to go over the traps rather than right. Dog legs left to a well protected elevated, undulating green. Handicap 17 so not the toughest hole but fun and strategic to play. For pictures the website shows it under spring and summer both from the fairway and looking back from the green. Also there is a course map with sketches of each hole - www.newportnational.com

John, I look forward to your assessment and yes, Doug, it is nice to see positive comments about Arthur Hills. The constant disparaging remarks about his designs have gotten quite boorish and tiresome if not mean spirited.

Cliff

« **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2006, 11:40:50 AM »

I have still yet to play Newport National, and I have been up there a few times this summer. I went over one afternoon but is was pouring rain, but what I could see looked very nice.

I was told that Brian O'Neil of O'Neil Properties who now controls Carnegie Abbey is trying to buy Newport National, but not at the price that the bank wants to sell it.

« **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2006, 11:42:27 AM »

I agree that NN is one of the best public courses in New England. My only complaint is the less than inspired bunkers work—routing and greens were well thought out, but some of the bunkers were boring and seemed like an afterthought.

I just played Red Tail last week—the second time I have seen the course. I liked it more the second time around. Lots of choices on doglegs that allow you to take some risks. The place has a very distinct look that is growing on me. Put Red Tails bunkers on NN and you would have something.

All in all, I agree that NN is the better of the two, but not by much. With those two, the Ranch, Blackstone National, and the Plymouth courses, you've got some very appealing and diverse layouts within a 2 hour drive (with NN perhaps stretching it depending on where you are coming from). Many of these CCFADs also offer reasonable rates after 2 or 3 o'clock—I think Red Tail was $65 with a cart after 2:00.

« **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2006, 11:53:50 AM »

This is a good sign for the site. We are giving Art a little respect. he deserves it.

« **Reply #4 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:19:04 PM »

I looked at NN's website before I made my NE trip and thought it was uninspiring for the following reasons:

1. It only shows 3 pictures and by seasons

2. Usually if someone has a wonderful course, there are lots of photo opportunities, and if they only bother to post 3, and they spend the time and money for a webiste, I get to thinking, maybe its only me, that they don't have a lot to show off

Does anyone think like this?

« **Reply #5 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:32:02 PM »

Cary,

Look at the fall photo album. Nine photos that, to my unsophisticated eye, look like a course I would love to play. The spring and summer photos of the 5th hole aren't too bad either. Why they have a link to winter photos is beyond me.

« **Reply #6 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:33:24 PM »

Cary;

It's just you!

« **Reply #7 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:34:12 PM »

Cary...go to this link and you will find 2 pictures under spring, 3 summer and 9 fall. Also under the course, course tour there is a diagram of the layout with a schematic of each hole.

http://www.newportnational.com/photogallery.asp

« **Reply #8 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:40:21 PM »

I din't click on the fall, dumb me

« **Reply #9 on:** August 02, 2006, 03:49:41 PM »

Obviously not a New Englander or you would know that fall is our best time of the year and one of which we are most proud;). Especailly true on a summer day with triple digits.

« **Reply #10 on:** August 02, 2006, 07:39:13 PM »

Cary,

Obviously you have not played Bethpage Black or used Joe “The Caddie of the Black Course”.

http://www.bethpageblack.net/

« **Reply #11 on:** August 02, 2006, 10:12:10 PM »

When we got to Newport National it was pretty foggy. As the fog lifted it reaveled a place that seemed mcuh bigger than I had imagined. The fairways, sightlines, buffers between holes give the sense of a big property. They say you get ocean or bay views but all I saw was a glimse. Didn't need it. The golf there is exceptional. No clubhouse or range. The proshop/snack shop are operating put of a set of trailers

The routing was very good as Cliff says. The constant change of direction, the mix of holes. Like how the wetlands are used on 1 , 9, 10 & 18. It may seem a bit repetitive, but it works to make sure you bring a solid tee game. The water in play was limited which I really like. Loved how the 3-5 was par3, par3 par4 all short followed by two 445+ yard par 4's.

The greens we're large and had plenty of movement. Some of them we're raised, some played at fairway level. The ones at fairway level incorporated a little (buit not too much) chipping area's. Interesting use of fall off area's especially the back side of # 7 which, given a back pin, played super tough.

I'll add a little note on conditioning. If was great. Firm & fast it was approaching. They are playing the RI Open there Thursday & Friday and they mentioned they we're getting the greens faster. On Monday they gave all of us fits!!! Especially given the great ridges & humps which we're tied in on holes like 4, 8, 11 & 13 & the bathtub on 10.

Some of the individual holes of note.

The Par 3’s are very good. The best we’re the first two and they we're back to back!

If you look at the card it’s got back (168 yrds) to back (154 yrds) holes which depending on wind could cause you to have the same iron in your hands. The 3rd plays a little more uphill as the green is elevated and the 4th plays a little more downhill. Both greens (as almost all of them on the course) are huge and some good movement. The 4th has a ridge dividing the green and will help kick a ball towards a back pin. That was a ton of fun.

The 13th is a downhill par 3 to a smallish green w/ some movement. The right hand side was shaved down and a marginally struck ball would run the risk of rolling into the H2O. Mis/bail out left you bring the water into play w/ a poor chip.

The 16th was brutally long. 212 for the gold tee’s and 253 from the tips. Pin was all the way back and just a tough hole. They give you plenty of fairway to play short which I'm sure gets alot of play.

The Par 5’s

Best was the reachable 8th. Bunker on the left will catch poorly struck drives. Going right and flirting w/ a few tree’s and native area will afford you the chance to get home in two. The fun starts at the green. If you check out the yardage guide online it’s a rectanglar green w/ deep, built up, intimidating bunkers front left & right. The cool part was the backsides of the built up bunkers we’re tied into the putting surface and provide you the ability to create a shot to get near a front pin.

The 14th was 523 from the gold and has a big bunker guarding the inside of the dog leg. Challenge that side and you rewarded w/ little turbo boost and gives you a shot for the grenn in two. The green site is giuarded by some bunkers on the right and a massive mound/chipping area which if you miss short & left will cause you great grief trying to get up & down from.

The Par 4's.

Goood mix of long & short. The 6th with wide fairway tough bunker and demanding green is a great long par 4 w/ everything right there in front of you. 10th is a great layup tee shot then a mid iron across the wetlands to a tough wide green. One of the better 4's looking back was #2. Demanding tee shot to the tightest fairway guarded short left & long right by bunkers. Asked to hit a great tee shot right away if you want a cahnce at birdie. The back to back 6 & 7 are brutally long, but your given width and options for a prefered line into the green.

17 is a great left meandering hole guarded down the left by sand (looks like a Pett Dye influeced waste area) and right by some shrubs. Missing right and you've got a LOOONG way into a tightly front guarded green.

Negatives – Can't think of any worth mentioning at all.

It was defienetly one that I wanted to go right back to #1 and start playing again. As I was getting ready to write this up I got thinking of a way to express how good I thought this course was. I’ve played a bunch of courses in the NE, NY/Tri States area and I can’t not think of one public course in that area that I thought was a better overall test, offered more fun & invigorating shots and was better conditioned.

I think it’s better than:

In MA – Red Tail, Shaker Hills, Waverly Oaks & anything on Cape Cod
In PA - Morgan Hill & Great Bear
In NY - Ravenwood, Greystone, Hiawatha, Turning Stone courses & Branton Woods
In NJ – Ballyowen & Architects
In CT - Wintonbury

The public places I haven’t seen yet so can’t comment on that would be better would be - Bethpage & Taconic.

Dan C – Bunkers. I don't know if I would call them boring, but rather simple. They all seem to be designed to be sand pro'd for easy maintence. A few have some steeper faces (1, 5, 8 &14) & the fairway bunker on 6 is an automatic layup. Not many cross or even pinching bunkers. I liked the cluster on # 11 and the way # 5 gave you many options off the tee. There are no capes, bays or islands. Could they be improved? Sure, but ther position & effect on the maintence budget work on the site.

Mike S – for you it’s a must see. I respect your opinion on both the classics & the new courses and would love to hear what you think if you get a chance to play it.

Did a little research and it appears that O’Neil wants to get his hands on the property, but the owners (Realty Financial - who bought it out of bankruptcy from the original developer) appears to be holding out for more. Originally it was supposed to have another 18 holes (Booth & Faxon design – would love to see what they could have done as I liked there course near the Cape - The Bay Club - alot) but it now appears to be downsized to just 9 more holes plus a range (nothing right now) short game area & a smaller than planned clubhouse.

Not sure where this goes in the long run. If it stays public, does it go back to being private. Whatever it does, you should do yourself a favor and check it out. I'd like to see some of the guys who get to alot of places (Jay Flemma, & Matt Ward especially) chime in and see their thoughts. If Brad see's this I hope he chimes in. He's close enough that I would think he's been over to check it out.

Here is the routing from Google w/ the holes highlighted. The crushed sea shells for cart paths really stand out in this picture. It was pretty cool especially given the area.

« **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2006, 12:31:06 AM »

Cliff,

From the overhead, I like that the irrigation pond is off to the right side of the site and only two holes play with water in play. The architect could have eliminated this though, ?maybe? An irrigation pond does not have to be incorporated into the design!!! Place it off to the side of the property and next to the maintenance facility if possible. Any architects have an opinion about this?

I love the crashed shell cart paths. If carts are to be allowed on a golf course then make the paths out of a natural material; gravel, crushed shells, cinders, etc. Then charge an arm and a leg to use the cart and offer a discount for the walkers.

Troy

« **Reply #13 on:** August 03, 2006, 10:35:27 AM »

John...Just read your extremely in depth review and enjoyed it. Well done. Not much to disagree with altho I prefer 11 as the better of the par 5's. Also, I find the back to back par 3's a bit repetitious and wish the length of them was more varied. Prefer 3 to 4. No comments about the Arthur Hills cart paths crossing a couple of fairways?

Troy..funny you should mention the irrigation pond. 12 and 13 are among my least favorite holes. Not necesarilly design as 13 is an excellent 3. Esthetically tho they seem artificial because of the pond and they really need to do something about hiding the pumping station with trees or whatever.

« **Reply #14 on:** August 03, 2006, 10:53:56 AM »

R.I. Open: Capone paces field with 65 in R.I. Open

01:00 AM EDT on Thursday, August 3, 2006

By PAUL KENYON
Journal Sports Writer

MIDDLETOWN -- For Mike Capone, yesterday was nothing special, at least weather-wise.

While so many others were wilting in the extraordinary heat, while R.I. Golf Association officials were spending much of their time taking precautions to make sure the 153 competitors in the Amica Insurance R.I. Open had enough water, Capone felt comfortable.

"I'm used to weather like this," the former Hendricken and Wake Forest star said. "Everyone's saying it's hot. I say go to Malaysia when it's hot like this and there's not a breath of wind. It's unbelievable there."

Capone, who has played golf in 48 countries since turning pro seven years ago, played as if he felt fully comfortable. The Quidnessett product set a course record at the five-year-old Newport National club with a 7-under-par 65 to earn a two-stroke lead after the first-round of the 54-hole event.

It was one of two records for the day. The other was for water consumed and ice used. With temperatures reaching triple digits, RIGA officials had coolers on six holes and had three other officials driving around with coolers on carts.

Brad Wilbur, the association intern, was in charge of the water and ice. He spent most of his day going back and forth to the Eastern Ice Company in Newport.

"As of right now," Wilbur said at 3 p.m., "we've gone through 1,100 pounds of ice, and I'm going back for more. We put it in the coolers and 10 minutes later it's almost all water again." By the end of the day, the players had gone through 31 cases of water (not counting what they drank before and after they finished), most players having six, eight, even 10 bottles in the five hours or so it took them to complete their round. The ice total ended up at 1,600 pounds.

With the help of Matt Adams, Newport National's general manager, an EMT from the Middletown fire department spent the second half of the day at the course and provided for anyone having medical issues.

A number of players -- eight in the first half of the field alone -- did not finish their rounds or turn in scorecards. Still, for those who did finish, scoring on the impressive Arthur Hills-designed course was excellent. Capone broke the former competitive record, held by PGA Tour pro Brett Quigley, by two strokes with his 65.

But he had plenty of competition. Crestwood's Greg Sampson, a first-year pro who has spent part of his summer competing on the New England Pro Tour with Capone, had a 67. So did veteran Ron Philo, the 2003 champion in this event. Philo earlier this summer won the national PGA Club Pro Championship.

Former PGA Tour pro Patrick Horgan, who is returning to competition after eye surgery, had a 69. Horgan also is a former champion of this event (1994). He was tied for third with 2001 champion Mike Baker of Maine, and amateurs Steve Royer and Patrick Wasserman.

Another familiar name, Jim Hallet, a longtime PGA Tour player after graduating from Bryant and the 1984 champ in this event, was in at 70 along with Point Judith's Jeff Martin and New Hampshire's Rich Parker.

The guy who had easily the best day, though, was Capone. The winner of this event two years ago, Capone was not joking about having played in such steamy conditions.

"In Asia, it's like this a lot," he said. Capone, who was married in December -- he and his wife Shaine met at Wake Forest -- soon will be hitting the road again.

"I play these two days, have one day off, then play the New England Tour event in Sterling (Mass.) and two days after that I fly to China," he said. "Then I go to Malaysia, and after that to the Singapore Open. From there, I'll go to London for the first stage of the European Tour Qualifying School."

Capone has been PGA Tour-caliber with his long game for years, and his power is what carried him to the lead.

He was 5-under on the four par-5s. He not only reached all four, which played 513, 557, 505 and 523 yards, in two, he got home with a 4-iron, 5-five iron, 6-iron and 8-iron. He birdied 1, 11 and 14 and eagled the 557-yard eighth when his 6-iron approach snuggled three feet behind the hole.

His only disappointment was that he had two bogeys, a three-putt at 15 and being unable to get up and down from the fringe on two.

"I struck the ball real well," Capone said. "I got a lot out of my round. It could have been even better, but I won't complain."

It took a score of 76 or better to qualify for today's 36-hole finale in the $30,000 event. The winner earns $6,500.

As if the day was not wild enough, thunder began rumbling about 6:40 p.m., with only three groups left on the course. When lightning was spotted, too, RIGA officials moved to get everyone off the course. Two groups finishing on opposite sides of the course rushed to complete their rounds.

"I was 4-under, the round of my life," Royer said. "I rushed to get in and bogeyed the last hole." Still, his 69 tied him for low amateur with Wasserman, another of the late finishers.

« **Reply #15 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:08:06 AM »

Cliff - I wasn't thrilled w/ the cartpaths crossing the fw, especially on #14 where you get it twice. Playing the ridge on #4 was really cool and I'm sure it increased the enjoyment of the hole. I did like 11, but the green site at #8 was much better IMHO.

Troy - I didn't like the retention pond on 12 & 13 because like you I hate it forced into the architectural strategy. However it really is not in play on 12 and if you need to put it into play, they did a job placing it where they did.

Bill - I found strategy galore especially around the greens. I would have liked to play again that day and play the holes differently after playing them once. I would have not been bold to the back pin on 7, I would have played more club into 8 & 18 & less into 5, I would have taken a more agressive path on 11.

As for what is prefered your right to each his own. I like the redheads & brunette's anaology. I'm definetly a brunette fan. The closest call for me was Morgan Hill (another one I need to get back and see). Have not seen Shelter harbour or Fox Hopyard & I plan on getting back to see Kalhuyat.

« **Reply #16 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:14:52 AM »

I guess it is a matter of preference, but I would not put Wintonbury ahead of NN. I really like Wintonbury, but play it more than 10 times and the repetition of holes 1-4 and 10-13 start to be a real detraction.

I wouldn't mention Fox Hopyard in the same discussion. It is one of my least favorite "new" courses in New England. Other than the holes around the clubhouse, I really disliked it. It is marginally better than Gillette Ridge (if only from the standpoint of conditioning) but it is not a course I would recommend. NN, on the other hand, is a course I tell friends they should go out of their way to play.

Ballyowen is another taste issue. It's a solid course—I wouldn't put it behind NN—but it is also a very, very different style.

Agreed that Shelter Harbour is far ahead of all of them. I wonder, though, how much of that has to do with the Jeff Bradley bunkers and the look that creates.

« **Reply #17 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:35:16 AM »

Shelter might have better greens than any other HF course, but do you think they are that much better than NNs?

I don't. For me, the biggest difference is the bunkering. Shelter makes great use of some centerline hazards that force some tough decisions off the tee. There are also spots were the bunkers either block part of the green or encroach on the putting surface to such a degree that it intimidates you into maybe making the wrong decision. I think Shelter does a much better job of that than does NN.

On the other hand, I prefer the open look of NN over the tree-lined fairways of Shelter. The corridors are extremely wide at Shelter, but it is a much different feel than NN.

« **Reply #18 on:** August 03, 2006, 01:23:56 PM »

John,

Thanks for taking the time to post this, and I will get there.

Has anyone played both Pumpkin Ridge and Newport. From watching the repeat of Tiger's last Amateur win the other night, it reminded of NN.

« **Reply #19 on:** May 13, 2007, 06:32:16 PM »

Quote from: Mike_Sweeney on August 03, 2006, 01:23:56 PM

John,

Thanks for taking the time to post this, and I will get there.

John,

I got there finally last night for a 2 hour sprint with my younger son along for the ride. First off, the staff was super nice to let Dusty ride along with me. Many places will not. I was told today that Brian O'Neil the owner of Carnegie Abbey bought Newport National in October. Similar to the staff at CA, they were very accomadating and again a reflection of the owner.

I really liked this course. John does a great review above. Lots of variety, only two longer walks, and the environmental areas were incorporated very well as an accent to the course rather than harsh hazards. I thought the green complexes were great and were very testing of your iron play in a Mountain Lake way. Yes there were all shaped, but so are Raynor's. It is not as strong off the tee, but it has some great tee shots to offset some blander ones.

The greens were slow as Newport is probably two weeks of growing behind NYC, but I felt the greens would get very interesting by Memorial Day.

The only other Art Hills course that I have knowingly played is Colonial Springs on Long Island which is functionally nice in a Doak 4 way, but NN is way above this. Thus Art Hills is batting .500 on the Sweeney Scale!

Take that Tiger Bernhardt!

« **Reply #20 on:** May 13, 2007, 09:54:05 PM »

I've been saying nice things about this course in every "bash Art Hills" thread I can find. Good to see that the positive comments are gaining some traction. Amongst my favorite parts of the course are the back-to-back long par 4s, #6 and #7.

I thought the square green on #8 was a little odd. I don't really care for corners on my greens, but the hump on that green is really cool.

I only played it twice during my 6 years in CT, but I liked it better than most of the courses I travelled to in that region. This would include Sugarloaf (ME), Balsams (NH), Green Mountain National and Equinox (VT) and Crumpin Fox (MA.)

« **Reply #21 on:** May 14, 2007, 08:58:38 AM »

Mike,

Glad to see you back and doing some field work!!!

I plan on getting back there this summer w/ camera in hand.

« **Reply #22 on:** May 14, 2007, 11:28:23 AM »

My short review
by Billy Boy Vostinak

I like Art Hills in general.
I have played a lot of Art Hills.
I like Art Hills more than most on here.
Originally planned as 36 private.
This course is routed pretty well.
The property is unfortunately nothing special.
There are no barking dogs.
There are no grossly outstanding holes.
It is a solid, well-built modern golf course.(WBMGC)
There are a couple of hundred of them. (WBMGC) Good for us!
I think Art has done few as well that I've seen.
I liked it and would play it again.

The end

In response, John F:

I think it’s better than:

In PA - Morgan Hill & Great Bear No and probably
In NY - Turning Stone courses (S, A, K) Yes, tie, no way Jose
In NJ – Ballyowen & Architects Coin toss and easily so
In CT - Wintonbury (add Gillette Ridge) maybe to yes and definitely

And that's my O.

« **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2007, 01:38:41 PM »

Quote from: W.Vostinak on May 14, 2007, 11:28:23 AM

My short review
by Billy Boy Vostinak

Originally planned as 36 private.

In response, John F:

I think it’s better than:

In PA - Morgan Hill & Great Bear No and probably
In NJ – Ballyowen & Architects Coin toss and easily so

Rman,

You like Morgan Hill waaaaay too much, and it is apples/mountain versus oranges/links style anyway.

I believe it was a 18 public and 18 private model following the model of Pumpkin Ridge which is also Troon Golf. Not sure if Troon Golf will survive the recent ownership change or what will happen in the future.

« **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2007, 04:39:27 PM »

It looks like a golf course with tape worm.

News:

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Mike_Sweeney

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Tiger_Bernhardt

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John Foley

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