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Brad Tufts

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St. Patricks in Ireland
« on: August 01, 2006, 11:48:11 AM »
In the preliminary stages of planning for an Ireland trip in July 07, we came across the website for St. Patrick's golf course in Ireland.  There are two courses, one shorter and designed by Joanne O'Haire, the Tra Mor, and the longer course, the last designed by Eddie Hackett, the Maheramagorgan.  I see the pics and history on their website, and see consulting work done by both Martin Hawtree and the Nicklaus group.

Some of the pics make the course look spectacular but somewhat rudimentary in conditioning.  Many of these must have been of the course shortly after construction.  I guess my question is what Nicklaus design has done to it/plans to do to it, and is the course conditioning up to the standards of the other courses in the area like Rosapenna?

Any insight would be helpful, as the course seems to have a good story....

-Brad
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Brad Tufts

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2006, 09:13:55 PM »
BUMP

Somebody has to have an opinion on this....
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Bill Gayne

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2006, 09:33:11 PM »
There's been a couple of threads on this course.

Article from the Irisk Independent

http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stories.php3?ca=16&si=1658932


'I had a real blast in Ireland'
Sunday July 23rd 2006
ADVERTISEMENT
 
 
JACK Nicklaus has set the date: St Patrick's Day, 2008. That is to be the official opening of a 36-hole links complex overlooking Sheephaven Bay outside Carrigart, Co Donegal, on a site which the great man has described as "the best piece of ground I have ever worked on."

The timing could hardly be more appropriate, given that St Patrick's has existed, albeit in a fairly rudimentary form, since 1982. And, of course, our national holiday happens to be the birthday of Nicklaus's boyhood idol, the great Bobby Jones.

We were chatting beside the Royal Liverpool clubhouse at Hoylake, where the Bear was paying what could be described as a ceremonial visit, given that he made his farewell at St Andrews last year. And he retained the power to captivate, even when talking of his life on the other side of the ropes.

"I had a real blast in Ireland this week," he said. "I arrived on Tuesday morning and spent 11½ hours on the St Patrick's site. They had to drag me off it. I wanted to keep working. Construction starts on September 30."

"It's fantastic," he went on. "The makings of a wonderful links complex. And I was back there again for five hours on Wednesday." He then paid his last working visit to the course he is designing at Killeen Castle, which is also scheduled for a 2008 opening as The Jack Nicklaus Club. "They've already seeded 12 holes," he said.

Such is his interest in St Patrick's, which is owned by Carrigart hotelier Dermot Walsh, that there have been suggestions he may invest some of his own company's money in the project. "Oh we might," he said in answer to my question. "But I don't get involved in that end of the business", adding that it was a matter for his son, Gary.

Students of golf-course reviews are probably heartily tired by now of reading about so-called hidden gems, but the phrase happens to be perfectly true of St Patrick's. Few people outside Donegal have heard of it, largely because it is relatively new, and for the fact that it is a modest, pay-and-play establishment without a club attached. The main, Magheramagorgan links was designed back in 1982 by the ubiquitous Eddie Hackett. And as was the way of the old master, he made a number of return visits over the years, the last on Hallowe'en 1996, six weeks before he died. By way of remembrance, the 16th became known as 'Hackett's Sod.'

Magheramagorgan could be stretched to 7,108 yards off the back tees. Less-accomplished practitioners, however, have found the neighbouring, 5,822-yard Tra Mor course more to their liking. This was designed by Joanne O'Haire, a former assistant professional at Royal Co Down who worked with Hackett on the main course before being given the chance of taking on her own project. Located on the other side of the bay from Rosapenna and with a glorious backdrop provided by Erigall and Muckish mountains, their setting, in 350 acres, offers ample space for disgruntled practitioners to tint the air blue, without fear of interfering with the play of fellow golfers. But one imagines the entire complex looking vastly different, when the Nicklaus hand is applied.

"I'm enjoying doing these things," he said, while admitting that he will travel about 300,000 miles this year to design projects in his Gulfstream 5 jet, a 50 per cent increase on last year's schedule. "It's also nice that I don't have to worry about how I'm going to play the Open, because I'm not involved any more. I know I can't." But he admitted: "While I don't miss the golf, I miss the competition; I miss the guys and I miss the scene." And beating people, I suggested. "Yeh," he acknowledged, with typical directness.

Then, looking out over the burnt, third fairway, he went on: "That's what I like about the golf over here. It is what it is. If the weather produces a dry golf course, that's the way you play it. That's what I enjoyed about the British Open.

"That's why I came a week ahead of time. To adapt my game. When guys say they can't play a certain course, that it doesn't suit their game . . . that's the biggest bunch of rubbish I've ever heard. The whole idea about the game is to adapt yourself to the course you're playing. That's what's so neat about here."

With that, he headed off for lunch; then for the airport. "And I'll be home for dinner," he concluded. Not unlike July 1986 when, after an exhibition with Seve Ballesteros at Royal Dublin, when he could remark that he had had lunch in Dublin, Ireland and dinner in Dublin, Ohio.



Sean Walsh

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2006, 11:45:41 PM »
I take this to mean that "Nicklaus Group" is re-doing both courses.

Great so we lose a Hackett and gain another Nicklaus..

I have never been there but am a great admirer of Hackett's work at Carne and Enniscrone.  I'm sure I've also read on here previously that the second course was a wonderful effort by a somewhat amateur architect.

What are the chances that the majority of Hackett's work has been retained?

Jack_Marr

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 02:22:06 AM »
I think in many cases Hackett may have wished his work to be redone, as he designed and developed these courses on such a low budget, he would not have been able to buld some of the holes he wanted.

In Enniscrone, about 5 or 6 holes were on the flat land outside the dunes because the resources weren't there at the time of design to build on some of the more duney areas.

I have also heard it suggested that they just wanted to get a course down on the ground at St. Patricks before planning laws were tightened.
John Marr(inan)

Johnny_Browne

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 05:08:07 AM »
Brad,
I know St Patricks very well and have some nice photos of the course which is spectacular land.  Basically the courses are in very poor shape and architecturally best described as "rough" - it was Eddie Hacketts last design and I think he died before he finished - there is a short par 3 called I think Hacketts Sod which I think was the last hole he designed - it is probably correct that it was built just before planning laws became (too) tight and has been ripe for some time for someone to take over, invest money and modify the designs.  I was hopeful that Tom D, or Coore and Crenshaw would get the opportunity but it looks as if Jack Nicklaus is going to do it - it will be interesting to see what develops - it will be a boost for the area as Donegal is suffering from many factories closing down and any tourist development will be useful.  From your point of view visiting NW Ireland is definitely worthwhile and I would suggest walking St Patricks with a camera.
Let me know if I can help.
Johnny Browne

Ally Mcintosh

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 05:39:28 AM »
hi there - first post...

as a scotsman living in ireland, i just wanted to comment on my belief that the west / north-west of ireland has the greatest links courses out of anywhere... or at the very least, the greatest links courses not consumed by tourism and commercialism...

two courses at ballyliffin, two at rosapenna, murvagh, rosses point, enniscrone, carne, ballyconneely... and these are just the very cream... there are so many almost as good

...hopefully this will be another worthy addition

Sean Walsh

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 05:59:30 AM »
Thanks for the local knowledge fellas.  

I also hope it will be a worthy addition to an underappreciated area of the country.  

Any idea what target the project has.  i.e is it more at the Doonbeg or Dooks end?  

I look forward to at least having a look during my planned 2007 return trip..




Brad Tufts

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2006, 08:40:48 AM »
Thanks for the info.  Sounds like it will be closed for renovations during my trip, but the story gets more interesting as each month goes by...
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Bill Gayne

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 08:51:52 AM »
Thanks for the local knowledge fellas.  

I also hope it will be a worthy addition to an underappreciated area of the country.  

Any idea what target the project has.  i.e is it more at the Doonbeg or Dooks end?  

I look forward to at least having a look during my planned 2007 return trip..






I don't think you hire Nicklaus Design for 36 holes that's a owned by a hotelier to build Dooks. I might be mistaken though.

Jack_Marr

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2006, 10:16:17 AM »
hi there - first post...

as a scotsman living in ireland, i just wanted to comment on my belief that the west / north-west of ireland has the greatest links courses out of anywhere... or at the very least, the greatest links courses not consumed by tourism and commercialism...

two courses at ballyliffin, two at rosapenna, murvagh, rosses point, enniscrone, carne, ballyconneely... and these are just the very cream... there are so many almost as good

...hopefully this will be another worthy addition

I have played golf with a scot living in Ireland called Ally Mcintosh...
John Marr(inan)

Ally Mcintosh

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2006, 11:06:37 AM »
then you have played golf with me, mr. marrinan...

...damn, i can no longer be anonymous  ;)

Jack_Marr

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Re:St. Patricks in Ireland
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2006, 11:20:57 AM »
Hi Ally

For a moment I thought that all Scots living in Ireland must be called Ally McIntosh.
John Marr(inan)