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Matt_Cohn

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How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« on: July 26, 2006, 01:39:37 AM »
I played at Shadow Lakes today in Brentwood, CA, where it reached 104 degrees on the back nine.

The ball seemed to fly at least a club longer than it does in San Francisco. My friend and I both hit it over several greens, and once we adjusted, we couldn't believe the clubs we hit pin high.

How much of this is the heat of the air? How much is the heat of the golf ball? How much is making a looser, faster swing? I wasn't swinging hard - I checked myself several times. Just hitting it long.

(For the record, 4 bogeys, 6 birdies = 69)

James Bennett

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 03:19:26 AM »
Matt

what was the humidity level?  Drier than San Francisco I expect.

what was the elevation above sea level?  a little higher I expect.

That should answer some of the distance gain.  I will be interested in any temperature responses.  

As an example, we have a new bunker at our course which, when it first opened in summer (dry around 15% humidity and warm) was reachable.  Now in winter (humidity around 65% and cool) the bunker seems a good 15 yards further away :o.  I expect my 'strength' off the tee will return in the summer.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Matt_Cohn

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2006, 03:29:58 AM »
Humidity started at 30% and dropped to 15% as the temperature rose from 95 to 104.

Elevation is minimal, actually, and did not affect distance - no more than 200 feet above sea level.

Padraig Dooley

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 03:41:16 AM »
The heat of the ball is a factor a warmer ball goes further than a cold one.
The heat of the air is another factor.
The figures I've heard mentioned are for every 2 deg celsius a driver carries 1 yard further. A tee shot that carries 260 yards at 20C only goes 250 at 0C.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

James Bennett

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2006, 04:19:51 AM »
Matt

what is the humidity of a 'regular' day in San Francisco?  I expect it is higher than 30%.

James B

(at this winter time of year, there is at least a 5% difference in distance between a low humidity, blue sky day and a high humidity (almost raining) overcast day, even though the temperature difference may only be say 2 degrees.  So, I believe you that there is a difference).
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2006, 09:43:03 AM »
According to a USGA rep, the ball goes one foot further for every degree over 70F, or about three yards further at 80 degrees, six yards further at 90 degrees, etc.  Of course, the same is true going below 70F.  At 50 degrees, you can expect to lose 20 feet, or about 7 yards.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jin Kim

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2006, 10:47:29 AM »
A golf ball travels further in humid air because humid air is less dense than dry air.

Jordan Wall

Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2006, 11:32:25 AM »
First of all I hope you got a cart in that kind of heat.
Twas 102 here recently and I quit after 13 holes due to heat exhaustion.

Anyways, to the question.
My ball, in the heat, went 10-15 yards further with my drives and I figured maybe a half club farther with my irons.
I hit my driver, with roll, about 280.  If you shot 69 I suspect you hit something around that far.  I simply add 10-15 yards to my drives, which doesnt atter unless you are trying to clear something or stay short of something.  Otherwise, bomb away.  How far do you hit your driver and other clubs.  The longer you hit, the more extra distance you get.
I personally think the thing that matters more is the half club more on your approach.  That is going to come in more than a little extra driver distance.

Matt_Cohn

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2006, 11:37:49 AM »
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wdensity.htm

This article explained air density nicely. It seems like the heat affects things much more than the humidity.

When I got back to San Francisco, my empty water bottle had scrunched and shriveled up to about half its original size due to the lower temperature, and hence greater air density, here as opposed to the course in Brentwood. Now I see the connection - the air in Brentwood was that much thinner! It's almost like playing at altitude.

JeffTodd

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2006, 11:49:04 AM »
A golf ball travels further in humid air because humid air is less dense than dry air.
That's correct, even though it seems counterintuitive.

Brian Noser

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2006, 12:10:31 PM »
No Wonder I hit the ball so Much furhter in St louis, it is the Humidity. ;D I have been about a club longer here since the weather has gotten hot and humid.

Doug Siebert

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Re:How much further does the ball go when it's hot?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2006, 12:54:39 AM »
The effect of heat is much greater than that of humidity -- the ball does go a tiny bit further in humid air, but it is only maybe a yard's difference between a 'very dry' and 'very humid' day in any particular locale.


http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm

Here's a neat little web site you can plug the numbers in to compare "relative density".  Consider 100% to be normalized sea level density -- plug in 16 feet altitude, 57 degrees, 30" barometric pressure and 57 degree dewpoint and you get 100% relative density or normalized sea level.  Those are conditions on a cool clammy day at Pebble Beach, for example.

If you plug in 1/2 mile elevation (2640 feet) 95 degrees, the same 30" pressure and 60 degree dewpoint, for Sand Hills on a typical summer day, you get 84.54%, meaning the air is about 15% less dense there.  That doesn't mean you'll carry the ball 15% further, since drag isn't linear to air density, but it helps you see the magnitude of the difference between various conditions.

High ball hitters get more help/hurt from air density since drag is a bigger factor the longer the ball is in the air.  The less dense the air is, the less effect wind has on the ball, and the harder it is to get the ball up in the air via backspin (so you might want a higher lofted driver in Denver than in Palm Springs)  However, the ball will lose less spin during its flight so it will bite a bit better in less dense air.

Altitude and temperature dominate, and air pressure makes more difference than you'd think, but even Tiger isn't precise enough to tell any difference humidity can possibly make.
My hovercraft is full of eels.