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Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« on: July 25, 2006, 07:45:32 AM »
Dye has slipped down the pages....about time for "the good Dr." ?

Limit it to a couple of holes per course perhaps...

# 15th P3 at Kingston Heath - arguably the best 1 shotter in Australia. A very difficult target to hit.

# 5th P3 RMW - see above....extremely well guarded green.
# 6th P4 RMW - downhill / uphill P4 - one can't be above the hole and the inside of the dogleg is well protected

# 3rd P4 Royal Adelaide - the ultimate risk v reward short P4
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 08:04:40 AM by Kevin Pallier »
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2006, 08:42:12 AM »
I doubt if even Doak could have screwed up the green at the 11th on Pasa to take away its lofty status as one of the finest holes I have ever played.  How is the after green...anyone..
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John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2006, 08:48:55 AM »
John,

I'll second the 11th at Pasa, one of the best holes I've ever played. Finally made timw and got there a few weeks ago and jotted down a bunch of notes which I want to post.

The new green is good, very tough from above the hole, but not outrageous. Don't know what the old one was like, but the new one is very good.

The house behind it is pretty cool also.
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Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2006, 08:49:01 AM »

#5 Crystal Downs
#7 Crystal Downs
#8 Crystal Downs

Honorable Mention 13,15,17

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"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Andy Troeger

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2006, 08:52:34 AM »
Also #1 at Crystal Downs, and definitely agree with #8. #3, 17, and 18 are fine holes as well.
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Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2006, 08:58:38 AM »
Of the ones if haved played

15th,16th,17th Cypress
8th Pebble
16th Pasatiempo
14th,15th The Valley Club
9th, 13th Lahinch
8th, 15th Alwoodley
4th, 9th Cork
6th Muskerry
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There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Evan_Green

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2006, 09:49:41 AM »
Some other personal favorites not yet mentioned

#8, 9, 12, 13 at CPC
#3 & 16 at Valley Club
#16 at Pasatiempo
#8 at Meadow
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2006, 10:13:45 AM »
JK - I posted pictures and a fairly lenghty description of #11 Pasa shortly after the re-do opened.  If anything, it's a better golf hole today if one accepts that sad fact that that place has to have greens that run over 10, which they seem to have to have.  Of course in a perfect world they could have just slowed down the old green, but at any sort of speed it was absurd - remember you played the one and only doable pin when you made your glorious birdie.

Doak also said the front had been built up way more than MacKenzie intended.  But perhaps he will come in and clarify.

In any case, here are some pics, from October 31, 2005, right after it reopened:





Not the greatest pics, I know.  The green just continues in a gentler, more natural fall off to the front now.

Anyway, methinks it remains on the short list of MacKenzie's best holes.

TH
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Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2006, 10:27:26 AM »
14th NSWGC One of the best <380yd par 4s on the planet.
16th NSWGC
10TH RMW
PLUS SOME OTHERS ALREADY MENTIONED:
16th Pasatiempo
17th at Cypress Point.
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Next!

Tom Huckaby

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2006, 10:30:24 AM »
Interesting choices so far.

Note I wouldn't include 16 Pasa.  It's a very good golf hole and of course we all know it's MacKenzie's favorite... but... well... to me it's not even among the best on the back nine there.  I'd say each of 10, 11, 14 are better overall golf holes.  And yes I did say 14. That hole is fascinating - it really seems the more you play it, the less you know how you should.  The use of the swale there is freakin' genius.

TH
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2006, 10:44:10 AM »
BV - that's pretty much damn well what I said re 11.

But Doak did also say the built-up front was not how it was supposed to be as well.  Take that into account and it does somewhat change the equation.

BTW I'm with you on almost all of those Pasa holes... I wouldn't put 9 in my "best".  But it is pretty damn cool now that the green has been re-done.  15 I go back and forth on... it is mystifying, that's for sure... a very tough little nut.  As you see I also dig 14 though.  But 2-3-10-11 we can certainly agree on.

Re CPC, hell each of 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 could have a strong case made... and the other holes aren't exactly chopped liver.

TH
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2006, 10:46:37 AM »
I love #9 Pasa also, for all the same reasons...

I just do need to narrow things somehow.

 ;D
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2006, 11:01:37 AM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 25, 2006, 10:46:37 AM
I love #9 Pasa also, for all the same reasons...

I just do need to narrow things somehow.

 ;D

18 at Pasatiempo did for me as much as anything. I loved that hole. I wonder if it suffers because of its position on the golf course.
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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2006, 11:03:19 AM »
Quote from: Padraig Dooley on July 25, 2006, 08:58:38 AM
Of the ones if haved played

15th,16th,17th Cypress
8th Pebble
16th Pasatiempo
14th,15th The Valley Club
9th, 13th Lahinch
8th, 15th Alwoodley
4th, 9th Cork
6th Muskerry


Padraigh,

Tell me more about the 8th at Pebble Beach.

Bob
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2006, 11:05:19 AM »
Glenn - 18 is a VERY strong golf hole.

It suffers for me, however, not due to its position on the golf course, but rather because the green is one of the foremost offenders in the "too fast for its contours" issue I so often complain about re this golf course.  The vast majority of the time that green is just absurd.

Get it at the right speed though and it is really cool.  

The shot into it is great in any case.

TH
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2006, 11:11:47 AM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 25, 2006, 11:05:19 AM
Glenn - 18 is a VERY strong golf hole.

It suffers for me, however, not due to its position on the golf course, but rather because the green is one of the foremost offenders in the "too fast for its contours" issue I so often complain about re this golf course.  The vast majority of the time that green is just absurd.

Get it at the right speed though and it is really cool.  

The shot into it is great in any case.

TH

I will buy that, I think that is why I liked it though. ;D I thought the approach was engaging, but not so when you get up there. I don't know what it was, but for some reason, I remember thinking, 'this is what an 18th green should be like.' Never over, till its over type green.
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2006, 11:13:46 AM »
Glenn -then you've never played it at speed, or you are far more of a golf masochist than I am.

Putt to the hole... miss... roll roll roll roll... off the front of the green.

Repeat as many times as necessary until you either make the uphill putt or quit.  3-4-10-15 times... yes, some stroke play rounds might ever end.

Sadly it's that way pretty darn often....

TH
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 11:14:44 AM by Tom Huckaby »
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Mark_F

Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2006, 05:35:31 AM »
Quote from: Kevin Pallier on July 25, 2006, 07:45:32 AM
# 6th P4 RMW - downhill / uphill P4 - one can't be above the hole and the inside of the dogleg is well protected

Can the 6th really be attributed to the good Doctor?  After all, his design had bunkers on the outside of the dogleg.

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Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Alister Mackenzie's Best Holes ?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2006, 08:44:40 AM »
I've only played on courses he designed in Yorkshire so selection is restricted:

4th & 15th at Alwoodley - difficult to pick just two from there

10th (Gibraltar hole) & 12th at Moortown

8th at Bingley St Ives

2nd at Shipley
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