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Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« on: July 22, 2006, 01:01:46 PM »
Is it right that Tiger will go through four rounds at Hoylake and likely hit only one driver while contending for (or winning) the title?

Shouldn't you have to hit every club in your bag to win a major championship?  What would you do to make him hit a driver - have a 650 yd par 5?

Or is this just a wise strategy on the part of Tiger as he is hitting almost all of his approaches from the fairway?

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2006, 01:29:50 PM »
If he didn't have his driver in the bag, then he'd be hitting every club in the bag, right?!

peter_p

Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2006, 01:32:52 PM »
Faldo asked him coming off 18 Friday "if you're not going to use yor driver, could my son have it as a souvenir".

Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2006, 01:54:25 PM »
I don't think having to use every club in your bag during a round is necessary to be a great test of golf. For example hitting a 7 from 160 is the same type of shot as hitting a 5 from 185 ie a standard iron swing.

A great test is when you are required to play every type of shot. A downwind shot to a front pin or a headwind shot to a back pin may require the same club but they are different shots.

Hoylake is requiring the players to play every type of shot and questions the players on what strategy to use.

Tiger feels by hitting irons off tees he is putting himself in the best position to shoot the lowest score and so far he is.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2006, 02:29:08 PM »
The interesting thing is that the rough doesn't seem to be nasty thick and the fairways aren't extra narrow, but he is still hitting the irons off the tee, presumably to keep short of fairway bunkers which are the biggest penalty there.  The changes to the course have put the bunkers out into Tiger's landing area, so he's pulled back and hit two-irons.

Nicklaus famously hit irons off most tees at Muirfield in 1966, but that was with the small ball, and he did it because the rough was brutal.

Maybe Tiger is just trying to call more attention to Phil's course management at Winged Foot.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 02:30:05 PM by Tom_Doak »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2006, 06:39:00 PM »
Peter Thompson won multiple British Opens in the 1950's & 60's hitting nothing but his 3-wood!

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2006, 07:05:39 PM »
Sergio Garcia is an excellent driver of the golf ball.  He has used his driver plenty.  Other players are hitting the driver as well.  I don't think the course has taken the driver out of Tiger's hands, I think Tiger has taken it out of Tiger's hands.

The firm conditions are allowing Tiger to hit something different, and use his excellent play with the long irons to his advantage.  There appears to be room for him to hit the driver, but you can't really argue with his game plan so far.

It'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.  I fully expect Sergio to fall apart in the final round playing with Tiger, he has a track record for doing just that...BUT..if he is able to keep his game together and is successful in hitting driver in play, he'll be hitting it 40-50 yards ahead of Tiger on holes where Tiger elects to keep playing the 2 iron.  I suppose Tiger will gauge his game as the day goes along.  If he needs to adjust his strategy at some point late in the game, I would guess he will, but I doubt he'll stray too far from what has gotten him to this point.

With all the great players at the top of the leaderboard, it should be an exciting final round. ;D

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2006, 07:35:50 PM »
I was lucky enough to walk inside the ropes with Tiger today.
It was one of the most impressive displays of hitting I have ever seen

Here are the lengths of his approaches into the holes.
1/ 196 yards    
2/196            
3 188
4 131
5 259
6 par three not sure
7 196
8 157
9 194 (par 3)
10 209
11 - about 95
12 203
13 200
14 169
15 166 (par 3)
16 261
17 200
18 237.

I doubt there is a player in the field who could make the cut if they were playing from that far back.




erichunter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2006, 07:39:36 PM »
The interesting thing is that the rough doesn't seem to be nasty thick and the fairways aren't extra narrow, but he is still hitting the irons off the tee, presumably to keep short of fairway bunkers which are the biggest penalty there.  

There is also the threat of OB which might be in Tiger's mind.  Still not sure what I think about all the OB as there hasn't been too much discussion about it on here.  18 looks a little strange with OB all down the right.  

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2006, 08:43:01 PM »
There is also the threat of OB which might be in Tiger's mind.  Still not sure what I think about all the OB as there hasn't been too much discussion about it on here.  18 looks a little strange with OB all down the right.  
Why exactly is there all of the internal OB at Hoylake?  Is it considered a "strategic feature" of the course?

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2006, 09:04:45 PM »


Maybe Tiger is just trying to call more attention to Phil's course management at Winged Foot.

It sounds crazy, but I think this really might be at least a part of it.  It occurred to me right after the U.S. Open that Phil might have reenergized Tiger just by the WAY he lost, that Tiger's sensibilities as the ultimate grinder might have been offended.

In any event, it would highly hypocritical for those on GCA who constantly lament "flogging" to lament Tiger possibly winning a major without using a driver.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Walt Cutshall

Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2006, 09:20:55 PM »
Tiger is avoiding the fairway bunkers at all costs. You'll almost certainly lose a stroke putting a drive in one of those.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2006, 09:02:28 PM »
A.G.:

I don't think it is hypocritical at all to be vocal against flogging and also dislike Tiger winning a major hitting only one driver.  Both are extremes, when a desireable outcome would be equipment and strategy that forces the golfer to think and make the best decisions on a hole by hole and day by day basis.

You don't want guys to automatically reach for the driver on every hole because being in the fairway has been made meaningless by the long carries of today's ball and square grooved irons leaving the rough impotent.  But by the same token I think it is undesireable to have a situation where a player decides the extra distance of a driver isn't worth the risk on any hole, even those where Tiger could carry the fairway bunkers off the tee and there was no risk of OB.

I guess Tiger decided he wanted to play for pars and let the birdies come where they may, and let everyone else get themselves into trouble and fall away, and relied on the guys who stayed close into Sunday to choke.  Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone but Tiger these days who is consistently able to play a major on Sunday without choking the majority of the time (100% of the time if you are Sergio)  Makes for a rather boring viewing experience, but I guess those who root for Tiger to win every tournament are happy that he never had to sweat at all on Sunday thanks to the ineptitude of the rest of the field, and Tiger's fans didn't have to sweat since he wasn't swinging a driver at all that day (one of his "right of right" drives wouldn't have worked out to well with all the OB close right at Hoylake)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2006, 09:10:39 PM »
I was at the Old Course for last year's Open and watched on TV this year.  The final rounds were very similar in terms of the competition and the affect of Tiger's composure on them.  Last year Monty wilted, this year Sergio.  Olazabal hung in there last year but didn't make the big charge.  DiMarco was much closer at the end than any body else either year but ran out of holes.  Tiger doesn't blow any body away, they seem to do it to themselves.

I didn't see anything wrong about Tiger's no driver strategy - staying out of the fairway bunkers was everything, and he hit 48/56 fairways, Funk-like!  Mike Clayton's list of approach distances is awesome, what an incredible performance.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2006, 09:11:03 PM »
Did Phil prepare incorrectly for Hoylake? Did he have a faulty game plan that he could not change on the fly, like Tiger did? Is his game one demensional and not suited for links course play?

I can't imagine Phil controling, and hitting his long and medium irons as well as Tiger did this week.
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2006, 09:18:27 PM »
Mike Clayton pretty much sums it up.   I don't believe anyone but Tiger had the skill to lay back that far and even come close to winning the championship.

The question regarding the internal OB.  If holes 3 and 16 don't have it then they become worthless.  Eveyone just cuts the dog leg corner into the practice rectangle.  I suppose they could fill it up with gorse or water ;)
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2006, 09:50:59 PM »
Bill McBride -

Sorry to quibble, but I have to disagree when you say "Tiger doesn't blow any body away, they seem to do it to themselves."

Tiger shot 67 yesterday, tying for the low round of the day. My guess is that if he had needed a 4 on the 18th hole to win, he would have made 4. Shooting the low round on the final day of a major championship may not be exactly "blowing any body away," but it is a very long way from backing into the win or having it handed to him.

He won by 2 shots and the next closest player was 5 behind. What more can you ask or expect from the guy?

I heard today that Tiger now has 4 of the 6 lowest scores ever posted in major championship golf.

DT  

Brent Hutto

Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2006, 10:20:12 PM »
I don't think it is hypocritical at all to be vocal against flogging and also dislike Tiger winning a major hitting only one driver.  Both are extremes, when a desireable outcome would be equipment and strategy that forces the golfer to think and make the best decisions on a hole by hole and day by day basis.

Doug,

It's not hypocritical but I can't imagine the course setup that you would like to see. If you make missing the fairway with a driver penal (to eliminate FLOGging) Tiger isn't going to hit driver very often if at all. If you lengthen and/or soften the course to where Tiger can't tee off with an iron you eliminate all but a handful of the longest players in the world from competition. Under any other conceivable scenario, if Tiger plays like he did this week he wins.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2006, 10:29:31 PM by Brent Hutto »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2006, 10:56:20 PM »
David, I think the point I was trying to make (ineffectively) is that it doesn't seem like he is crushing anyone, more that they can't keep up through personal failure.

But you are completely correct, his birdies on 14-15-16 were the telling blows and put DiMarco away.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2006, 11:02:07 PM »
I'm not arguing that the course setup at Hoylake was bad, the weather just didn't cooperate in that a course like that needs wind.  I don't quite understand how there seems to be 4 straight days of perfect nearly windless weather for 3 out of every 4 Opens, but the two times I've been in Scotland the two I've been in Ireland for a total of about 35 days I can quickly count the days I've played in conditions that nice:

1st trip to Scotland: 1 day - at one of the Troon munis
1st trip to Ireland: 0 days (mostly 40-50 mph winds)
2nd trip to Scotland: 3 days - TOC on second day, North Berwick and Muirfield on the last two days
2nd trip to Ireland: 1/2 day - afternoon round at Killarney was completely windless after 30-40 mph winds that morning at Tralee

Maybe I'm just lucky or unlucky, depending on how you look at it, but these trips have been in late May for the first two, mid August for the third, late June for the 4th so its not like I'm showing up in November.  Maybe they ought to move the Open to some other time of the year when the weather is more of a factor ;D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2006, 11:03:26 PM by Doug Siebert »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jim Nugent

Re:Hoylake - Driver free zone for TW
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2006, 12:15:12 AM »
To follow up on David Tepper's point, Tiger's winning score was the 2nd lowest compared to par in Open Championship history.  Only his own 19 under at TOC in year 2000 is better.  

To beat him this year, someone would have had to tie or set the all-time British Open scoring record.  

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