Don't play this Scottish links!!

« **on:** July 21, 2006, 12:08:04 PM »

Hi All,

I am making my initial pilgrimage to Scotland in June of 2007 and think that I have a good idea of where I'd like to play.

As helpful as this website has been, almost every links course in Scotland over 6,000 yards has received positive comments.

What I am looking for is which courses you WOULDN'T play and why.

Thanks in advance!
Chris

« **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2006, 12:12:05 PM »

Quote from: Chris Burgard on July 21, 2006, 12:08:04 PM

I am making my initial pilgrimage to Scotland in June of 2007 and think that I have a good idea of where I'd like to play.

As helpful as this website has been, almost every links course in Scotland over 6,000 sf has received positive comments.

What I am looking for is which courses you WOULDN'T play and why.

You're kidding, right? Every links course over there has something to tell you about different golf shots. The conditions are that interesting, and add in wind and it's never boring.

I will be interested to see if anybody has any Scottish links they wouldn't recommend. I certainly don't but I haven't played that many myself.

« **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2006, 12:16:25 PM »

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the reply...but I'm not kidding.

I know most people would answer that "there are no wrong decisions" and I am looking at playing a few "smaller" courses, but am also curious as to which people might tell me not to bother playing.

Cheers!
Chris

« **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2006, 12:18:15 PM »

Scottish links?

None.

Inland non-links courses in Scotland?

There must be some that aren't worth seeing. I've yet to play any myself, but my ratio over there is 98% links / 2% non-links, so I really don't know.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2006, 12:35:49 PM »

Bill:

I don't know if this answers your question, but here's an example of a choice you could make.

Many on this site extol the virtues of Machrihanish, and it's well worth the long slog to get there. It's a great links course. About 10-15 miles south of Machrihanish is a funky, odd links course called Dunaverty. It plays at 4,800 yards, par 66. Cows roam over some of the course, it has a tiny, not-spiffy clubhouse, and no one would describe the course as manicured. But it's a true links course, with some outstanding views (Northern Ireland on a clear day), and a few truly terrific holes.

Some who make the trek to Machrihanish think it's nuts to take time away from playing another round there to spend time at Dunaverty, a course clearly not in the league of its famous neighbor. Nonetheless, Dunaverty offers the chance to play golf as many, many Scots play it -- not on a championship or even first-tier links course, but a good links on a piece of land that the local folks somehow managed to fit a course.

Your choice of courses, in part, depends on what you want to get out of your trip there. For me, personally, I went out of my way to find courses that were off the beaten path, a bit unconventional, and not populated by roaming tour groups of golfers. I didn't play on a lot championship courses, but I met a lot of great folks, and still managed to play a lot of fun golf.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2006, 12:50:54 PM »

I'll take a shot. Of the links I have played in Scotland, I least enjoyed Glasgow Gailes. I have to qualify it because the weather got so bad we walked in from the 9th or 10th hole. It was literally raining sideways. But still, I don't recall anything that good about it.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:02:23 PM »

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I was disappointed in The New Course. The only one of 12 or so courses I've played in Scotland that I will not try to play again.

Bob

« **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:05:31 PM »

Not saying these are bad, but they are some of my least favorite Scottish links courses I've played. You can still play them and be happy, but I'd prioritize these lower:

Gullane
Carnoustie
Crail - Craighead

Of course, Goodale thinks Carnoustie is one of the best - a chacon son gout.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:16:28 PM »

Chris,
I would probably skip Murcar unless you don't mind 4-5 blind tee shots (of course, they are only blind once, but since you will be there once they detract a bit IMO). However, one of the greatest driving holes I have ever seen is #7 Serpentine which is a par 4 that alone is worth making the trip to Murcar.
When looking for recommendations it is often helpful if you tell us what you like and dislike in golf courses.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:17:45 PM »

You should go see Kilspindie if you are in the Gullane area. Best sub 6000 course I have played. But don't bother without a decent wind.

« **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:18:25 PM »

Oh, and I would second Dunaverty!

« **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:16:56 PM »

It's unusual to have a bad time on a golf course and nearly impossible to do so on a Scottish links. Of course, some links provide greater value in terms of time and $. Pleasure on the links is governed by many factors and as they say your experience may vary. I've played dozens of Scottish links and enjoyed them all. However there are several that I would not endeavor to return to even though my initial expeience was positive. Off the top of my head these would include Glasgow Gailes, Wick, Southerness, Shiskine, Dunaverty, Tain

« **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:37:37 PM »

Quote from: John Cullum on July 21, 2006, 12:50:54 PM

I'll take a shot. Of the links I have played in Scotland, I least enjoyed Glasgow Gailes. I have to qualify it because the weather got so bad we walked in from the 9th or 10th hole. It was literally raining sideways. But still, I don't recall anything that good about it.

John,

A pity, with the heather alongside the fairways I found it much tougher test than Western Gailes, although the latter is one of my favourites.

Bob

« **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2006, 03:29:12 PM »

I think Chris's question deserves an attempt at a serious answer - how is it going to help someone making his first pilgrimage to Scotland to receive 50-100 suggestions on good links courses to play and no advice on which ones might possibly be worth skipping?

My advice - among the big names, definitely miss Carnoustie. Great test of golf for the pros, nearly impossible test of golf for most mere mortals, plus it's a downright ugly course to look at. I've never played Troon, but reports suggest it might possess similar traits...relatively uninspiring, except in a few spots at the far end of the course. (Very solid golf, but not hugely inspiring.) I might even recommend missing the Old Course, believe it or not, if the history doesn't really jazz you up - it's such an unusual course that you won't really get much out of it in a single playing. (Most people who tell you they really loved the architecture after a single go are probably lying, or at least thinking wishfully!) Same also goes for North Berwick and Prestwick, to a lesser extent: if you enjoy quirky architecture, definitely go to one or both, but if not you're likely to think they're downright weird in spots. Among slightly lesser names, I'll also second the criticism of Southerness as well; the Machrie, on Islay, is also good and interesting but probably not worth the journey on one's first trip.

Now, I would recommend visiting one so-called "lesser" (and/or shorter) course on your first trip, just to open your mind as to the sorts of golf which many Scots really enjoy. If you are going to Machrihanish, Dunaverty is a perfect candidate for what I mean. Crail (Balcomie) is good in Fife, as is Kilspindie or Gullane #3 in East Lothian, but Dunaverty is really the sort of course that everyone should play once, and makes a really refreshing change of pace in the middle of a slog through lots of "championship"-type courses.

Cheers,
Darren

« **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2006, 03:49:00 PM »

Nairn is a good course (held a Walker Cup i believe) with great green conditioning but not the most architecturally interesting. It gets visited regularly on the way up to Dornoch. I'd play something else up that way instead.

Also, if you venture into the Spey valley avoid Grantown on Spey. Find your way onto Boat of Garten instead.

I wouldn't waste the money playing Turnberry either. Feels too much like a Westin Resort, which it is. Weak caddies and a bit over groomed with some blah holes. I'd choose Prestwick and Western Gailes down that way.

« **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:09:18 PM »

Quote from: Darren_Kilfara on July 21, 2006, 03:29:12 PM

Same also goes for North Berwick and Prestwick, to a lesser extent: if you enjoy quirky architecture, definitely go to one or both, but if not you're likely to think they're downright weird in spots.

That does it, Darren, you've definitely lost all credibility with that post! It didn't really occur to me that anyone could put North Berwick (you did mean the West links, right?) on a list of possible don't plays.........

Actually I was a bit put off by Crail/Balcomie last trip over. It's so tight there at the 2nd green / 3rd tee / 3rd green / 4th tee that it took us what seemed like 45 minutes to clear the 4th tee! That is a very crowded corner there, with 4 greens and tees in maybe 100 square yards!

« **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:11:42 PM »

Quote from: Darren_Kilfara on July 21, 2006, 03:29:12 PM

I might even recommend missing the Old Course, believe it or not, if the history doesn't really jazz you up - it's such an unusual course that you won't really get much out of it in a single playing.

« **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:13:40 PM »

OK, this is getting weird. Every single course listed as a "miss it" I sure as hell enjoyed.

Is the question one of prioritization? I thought the question was "don't ever bother with."

Because if it's the former, then nothing Darren is saying is crazy. If it's the latter, he must be immediately committed.

« **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:16:06 PM »

I think this is a silly question as well. I cannot imagine any course that a first timer would think of should not be played. Scotscraig was the nearest thing I played on the first trip that I wish I had missed and only then for another round on TOC.

« **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:36:03 PM »

TAIN RULES! and so does the New Course!

Anyways, I agree with Bill McBride about Darren's list. Maybe his suggestion on North Berwick is a conflict of interest - so they'll be more time for him to play.

I'd put North Berwick on my MUST PLAY list anytime one is near Edinburgh and environs!

Here's my suggestion for the first time 10 day trip:

North Berwick
TOC + New Course or Kingsbarns
Cruden Bay
Boat of Garten
Dornoch
Brora
and Dornoch 3 more times.

« **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:39:32 PM »

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.

I intentionally didn't outline what I like in golf courses so that people's responses were not affected by my thoughts.

I plan on playing a wide variety of courses from A's to C's...from "fair" (Muirfield) to quirky (NB West) from expensive (Muirfield again) to cheap (Brora).

I appreciate the feedback so far as will other travellers who read this thread at a later date. I think that I can strike Carnoustie from the A list and Southerness from the B list.

To make this thread more palatable to Mr. Huckaby and others I will rephrase my request. (I already know that Tom has a hard time disliking any golf course or 19th hole

)

The new request will be to outline the courses you would rate in the bottom 5-10% of Scottish links in your experience as well as over-rated bigger name courses.

Thanks again!
Chris

« **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:50:24 PM »

Chris - well yes, you do have me pegged. So you can imagine my incredulity re this question.

OK, bottom 5-10%. Man even that's tough for me.

I guess it's all going to turn on how much time you have. if you have unlimited time, then I am not kidding - there is not a single links that you won't find something to love at. Of course you'll enjoy some more than others, but man links golf as a concept is just so damn fun, the course at time kinda doesn't matter all that much.

But I know that doesn't help. You want to prioritize.

OK, that being the case... I guess the ones at the bottom for me would be ....

god I am trying....

I seriously can't even do that. Every one I want to mention, I recall having a blast at.

So OK, this was a totally worthless post, one of many in my history.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2006, 05:15:29 PM »

Not sure about bottom 5-10% but if you are heading north give Nairn a miss. Tain & Brora are much better and at more than half the price much better value.

« **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2006, 05:19:54 PM »

Sean,

I'm curious--what is it about Nairn that you didn't like? I haven't been to Scotland, but am planning a trip and Nairn is on my "maybe" list mostly because I'm going north and it's in the neighborhood. From photos, it looks like it has some cool, heathland-like holes and some nice seaside holes. It looks quite flat, but nonetheless interesting. Mind you, these impressions are just from photos so more specific, firsthand information would be appreciated.

« **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2006, 05:20:10 PM »

Here's where it gets weird for me.

I loved Nairn - great club, great people, very cool routing, some damn interesting golf holes, some crazy greens. I guess these were the most "American" greens I played over there though - very green, very fast. They almost seemed like bent...

I am also very pro-Tain. But I wouldn't call Tain "much better" than Nairn.

So ok, if time is limited, I'd say pick one or the other of these - no real need to play both. If funds are an issue, then heck yeah, if indeed Nairn is twice as much as Tain, then skip it - it's not worth that.

But if Nairn is a bad golf experience, then I'm Ernie Els.

BTW if time is an issue, neither of these are really worth tearing yourself away from Dornoch for....

TH

ps to Tim - we crossed - I'd say you captured it well from the pics. As for playing it or not, it's gonna depend on time and funds and what your other ideas are for that area / that time in your sked. It did work out well for my group several years ago as a course on the way back from Dornoch.

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