[Doug Sobieski]

I recently spent a day playing two courses that totalled 15,270 yards (Purgatory at 7754, and Crooked Stick at 7516). I was with a good friend that is a decent player (3 or 4 handicap), that hits it Tour long. Before we even played at Purgatory to start the day, he told me that he didn't think the length of the golf course would be a factor for him. Well, he was right. Here is a guy who previously had NEVER beaten me gross (I'd normally give him at lease one or two a side), and he shoots 77 (Course Rating - 78.1, course record is 72!!!!!) without driving it very well. He never hit more than a 7-iron to a par 4, and the longest club on a par 3 was 4 iron. He walked off the golf course thinking that it was a lot easier than he expected, while I was thinking that it couldn't get much harder!

A couple questions....

- Has it been sufficiently proven to the governing bodies that added length is the greatest gift you can give the longest hitters? At that length, a 4-handicap bomber almost needs to give shots to a lower handicap player that hits it 265!!! Is it just me, or does that seem strange.

- O/T, where else can you play two rounds totalling over 15,200 yards in the same day? The people of Indianapolis must be sadistic, because when you factor in Wolf Run, that's some of the most difficult golf imaginable.
 

[George Pazin]

The people of Indianapolis must be sadistic, because when you factor in Wolf Run, that's some of the most difficult golf imaginable.

The sad thing, which you allude to in your post, is that for an ever growing segment, length doesn't add much if any challenge.

[JR Potts]

As most know, I routinely play Medinah.  Playing at the tips (7600) and playing at the front (7200) makes little, if any, difference in score.  [Except for the 13th hole].

[Doug Ralston]

Jesus!;

With me a teeing over 5700 is too long.....LOL. Luckily, most courses have options. If I must play from the 'front tees' [please show mercy, and do not say 'women's tees'] I am not too proud. I may only hit my drive 180, but I'll bet I hit it as far into those trees as you ever do!

BTW, I loved Purgatory, but you can guess I didn't see as much of it as you. Had an eagle there when a great bounce off a Kern mound and a long roll left me 12ft after my second from 420 or so par-5. See you? You would call that a medium par-4. Golf is certainly different things to different people.

Doug

[John Kavanaugh]

Doug,

It is not a Kern mound it is a Diddel bump..

Link: http://ronkerngolfarch.com/bildidas.html

[Doug Ralston]

LOL John;

I for one am grateful to whomever is responsible for all that earthmoving and 'maximalist' construction'. No mound, no eagle!

Doug

[JR Potts]

Jesus!;

With me a teeing over 5700 is too long.....LOL. Luckily, most courses have options. If I must play from the 'front tees' [please show mercy, and do not say 'women's tees'] I am not too proud. I may only hit my drive 180, but I'll bet I hit it as far into those trees as you ever do!

BTW, I loved Purgatory, but you can guess I didn't see as much of it as you. Had an eagle there when a great bounce off a Kern mound and a long roll left me 12ft after my second from 420 or so par-5. See you? You would call that a medium par-4. Golf is certainly different things to different people.

Doug

420 yard par 5?  That hole better be up the slope of Mt. Everest or that is a birdie!

[John Kavanaugh]

Ryan,

While Doug loves to tell us how poor he is he only occasionally mentions he is disabled as well...I'm sure he was on the up tees and possibly on the 770 yd hole..I need to check but the hole may be 777 yds in some attempt to carry on with the devil theme..

[JR Potts]

Now don't I feel like the total ass hole.

"Foot, please go in mouth."

Sorry Doug, it was meant in jest anyways.

[Doug Ralston]

Ryan;

I am not really 'disabled', as in the type of disability my clients have [that being my work]. What I am is short [no leverage], old [mid-50's], and arthritic [especially my hands].

It is true that this keeps me from hitting the ball long, or straight, or putting worth a crap. But, aside from these little diversions, my game is really nearly mediocre.

But I truly do love golf courses. If I could start my life over, I certainly would be a course architect [or a political commentator, odd numbered days]. This is a fun site.

Doug

[Glenn Spencer]

Doug,

I played there 2 weeks ago and I thought that Purgatory played somewhat short as well. 6-iron was the most I hit into a par 4,(mostly 9-irons) and I did hit some 2 and 3-irons on 7 and 12, but I thought it was pretty short for 7800. I shot a few over(75) and had no problem with it, of course we did not have all that much wind, except for 13. The plates had been removed on the back tee, 741 I think. We went back anyway and I killed one into the wind that barely cleared the hay. It was something like 325 to get to the fairway from back there. My friend shot 82 and he is not long at all. We started to think that it was marked wrong and all about marketing the course or something. This is the reason I hadn't posted on it. I honestly don't buy it. Trophy Club, the next day? 483, No.1 Driver, 5-iron, that is 483 to me. Not Driver-wedge. Actually, I forgot, my real premise for thinking Purgatory is up to something is my drive on 10, I toe-hooked it into the bunker on the fly and the hole is 473 and I had 194 in. On a real course, if I kill one it goes 280, here a toe-hook into the bunker goes 280. I don't buy the place, personally.

[Glenn Spencer]

Also, those are the worst bunkers in America to try and do anything out of, if they are wanting them to be hazards, then they are to say the least.

Doug,

What did you think of Crooked Stick? Was the rough still at your knees?

[JR Potts]

Ryan;

I am not really 'disabled', as in the type of disability my clients have [that being my work]. What I am is short [no leverage], old [mid-50's], and arthritic [especially my hands].

It is true that this keeps me from hitting the ball long, or straight, or putting worth a crap. But, aside from these little diversions, my game is really nearly mediocre.

But I truly do love golf courses. If I could start my life over, I certainly would be a course architect [or a political commentator, odd numbered days]. This is a fun site.

Doug

Fine, then I'm not sorry!  Nice Birdie...Congrats!  

[Doug Sobieski]

I need to check but the hole may be 777 yds in some attempt to carry on with the devil theme..

741. Carry to the fairway is 290 according to Jon the Head Pro.

[Glenn Spencer]

Yes, I forgot, 416 was the first plate in the fairway, it is about 290-300 carry.

[Doug Ralston]

Common 'joke' between my playing partner and I. "What do you call a 420 yd par-4" Together: "Par-5!"

Ah, blessed golf. All things to all people.

Doug

[Doug Sobieski]

Also, those are the worst bunkers in America to try and do anything out of, if they are wanting them to be hazards, then they are to say the least.

Doug,

What did you think of Crooked Stick? Was the rough still at your knees?

Regarding the bunkers, I found it very difficult to create any kind of firm footing (let alone rake them smooth after playing from them!!!). I liked how the ball sat up in the fairway bunkers, but the sand was so fine that it made things more difficult around the greens. I REALLY liked the bunkers at Crooked Stick. Nice and firm.

The rough at Crooked Stick wasn't that bad. The weather, however, was like Orlando in the summer.

[Jordan Wall]

Purgatory is that one course that is waaaaay underbunkered right?
 

[Doug Sobieski]

As most know, I routinely play Medinah.  Playing at the tips (7600) and playing at the front (7200) makes little, if any, difference in score.  [Except for the 13th hole].

Ryan:

According to the USGA, at Medinah the back tees should play approximately 2 shots harder than the next set forward (course rating of 78.1 vs. 76.0). #13 must be REALLY hard from the tips

[JR Potts]

Doug:

In my experience, 13 actually does play 2 shots harder from the tips than the middle tees.

I make 5 more often than 3 from there.  If the PGA actually puts the tees there in the PGA Championship, I think you will see a whole lot more 4s and 5s than 2s and 3s.  [For you history buffs...the current 13 is the old 17 - the 45 and 75 opens were lost there].

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