Tom:  Todays date reminds me.   My members used to love our "Friday Games" when we would play "Red, White, and Blue".  A rotation of tees.  Of course depending on the course , it can be very enjoyable.  It allows play on normally Par 5's with a great second into a smaller than normal green, great short par fours and par 3's of much more varying lengths than usual.

Tom

This is a great idea, except in Scotland which (as you know)  almost every day is an "Up Day!"  

As a corollary, how about an "Up Your Designers Day" where every GCA has to commit to designing courses which can be played "up" without disruption.  Think the Old Course, which is built for seamless transitions between tees and greens at its natural 6500 yard length but can also accomodate the big boys every 5 years or so by sending them back to tees deep into the bushes--even onto other courses!

Rich

TD,

Many courses I play, specially the popular daily-fee types, already do something like this quite often.  Seldom do I play a course to the scorecard yardage of the back tees.  I think the shorter setups are done to speed up play and save on maintenance, not to promote fun as you advocate.

You seem to equate fun with shooting a lower score.  As Michael Whitaker noted in your other thread, there appears to be a cultural difference between golfers in the States ('what did you shoot') and the UK ('did you have fun').  If one looks to the game for challenge, as a chance to test oneself against the scorecard and time (historically- what I did last week, last year, a decade ago), and as an opportunity to persevere, scoring higher in a more rigorous examination may very well be superior to a low score on one that has been dumbed down.

BTW, while I've been prohibited from playing the tips on a number of occasions, not once have I been prevented from playing a course from the shortest distances possible.  At my prior club, we too used to have a "Red, White, and Blue" tournament and it died years ago for a lack of interest.  Perhaps one of the game's allure, at least on this side of the Atlantic, is its inherent difficulty.  Maybe unlike for your design associate, a 76 from the tips is more intrinsically rewarding than a 73 from the shorties.  Who is to say that one value system is superior to other?  

BTW2, when we play your courses, particularly Pacific Dunes and Stone Eagle, are we not in effect already doing what you suggest?  Perhaps this approach to golf- shorter courses with more demanding green complexes- will drift our culture in the direction you seek.  If not, I am sure your clients will let you know.

Tom,

Don't the Doak tees at Tumble Creek represent what you are proposing here, and was that the intent of those tees?

TomD:

At my course we are now doing a number of things that we've never done before and it's working so well to show our membership and various levels of them our course's true variety, elasticity and potential.

Sometimes they play it "up" and sometimes they put on what they now call "tough day".

It's amazing how much more our membership now understands not just the variety and adaptability of our course but also how much more they understand the adapabilitty and potential of architecture and particularly varied maintenance practices.

Some are even saying things like; "Where has this golf course been all these years"?

It's so encouraging.

Do what you all want to do, I don't care.  If you play every tee up, then you are shooting a low score, but it is on a par 67 or something course. Everyone seems to like a good gambler par 4 of under 320 or so and I am no different, but I like to feel that I deserve to play them by dealing with some tougher holes along the way. If all the par 4's were 310, I would not enjoy myself, but one or two a round make for the best holes in the world sometimes, playing 8 of them would just be repetitive and easy.

Tom,

Neat idea. Why don't you write it up for USGA or NGF to promote?

On the "Is Shorter, Better" thread, I proposed the possibility of setting aside a day where every course in America would move the tee markers up and encourage people to play from there and see if they might enjoy it more.

Of course, just making every hole shorter is not necessarily going to make them better.  So, I want to ask each of you to work on a little homework assignment.

Get the scorecard for your home course, and "design" the most interesting set-up you can which stays under 6,300 yards.  Suggestions:  

a.  Keep a couple of the par-4's pretty long, even playing them from the blue tees instead of the whites, if there is no big forced carry off the tee;
b.  Make some of the par-5's really short [even par-4 length, you're welcome to reduce the par to 70 if you want];
c.  Use the red tees so one of the par-4's is driveable;
d.  Try to use up tees on holes where they will bring new hazards into play off the tee; and
e.  Try to make the course as short a walk as possible.

Save your work in case this thing gets off the ground and we are successful in promoting Up Day 2007.  Or, even get your club to try it in 2006.

[Note:  my club, Crystal Downs, is only 6200 yards from the white tees on an everyday basis.]

I loved the Doak tees at Tumble Creek.
The variety was great!!!

when i was a junior/high school player, former Oklahoma University coach David Yates (former multi-sport star at Delaware U.) used to encourage us to play the so-called women's tees at my home club as a kind of playing pedagogy to do a lot what many have posted to get used to hitting different kinds of shots and thinking course management in different ways.....and also to build expectations about making birdies.  

After hours of exhausting effort, my submission is as follows:

Pasatiempo GC, white tees.

 

I undertook this task early this spring, really to create more risk-reward tee shots but also to simplify the walk around my neighborhood- traversing course.  

I settled somewhere in the 6300-6400 yard range and used four different tees (Gold, Blue, White, Red), making a few long par 4's, a short 110 yard par 3 (walkability factor) and two drivable par 4's.  I wanted to keep the slope and rating somewhere between the Blues & Whites, which I typically play, so when I play I know how to handicap it.  

Ok, I have been on this site for a while now. So far I have seen these basic quotes.

1. I like to see the professionals struggle to make par.
2. Birdie-fests are no fun to watch on TV.
3. The technology has made the game easier and easier to hit it straight.
4. It is a cart-ball course
5. You must walk the course to get a proper feel for its architecture

Now I am reading that people want to move the tees up so that they can shoot the scores they used to shoot. They want the rounds to move as fast as possible and they want the tees right on top of the greens.

In my opinion, you are not going to shoot 75 all your life, so if you can't do it, you can do it. If you want to move up to the front tees and have fun that is fine, just don't be disappointed if the rest of the country doesn't want to. Some people like to hit a 4-iron from the fairway every once in a while. Some people don't consider this boring or a slog. Some people, (Hogan included) thought that long irons were the definition of a player. I guess I should also say hybrids as well now.

What is the hurry to get done with the round that you want to move up tees? Are you running home to your wife, so you can do some gardening or fix something? If it frustrates you that much to be on the course for 4 hours, maybe it is not the right sport for you. Play at 6PM when nobody is out there. I am sure that you are all busy men and I understand that, but the sport I love doesn't need to be compromised because we don't have a lot of time. You either need to make the time or give it up. Don't put your problems on us.

Also, nobody is holding a gun to your head to walk. The course is the course, if you are going to complain about the walks then take a cart. If the regulation course is too long, then don't walk it. Some people don't want to be playing a 6300 yard golf course next summer on Aug.10 or whatever at their club. Some people play golf because it is a challenge unlike any other sport and it is not fair or easy and that is why they enjoy it.