Is Winged Foot the Best Two Course Membership

« **on:** June 14, 2006, 12:12:34 PM »

Every time I look at the Winged Foot threads, particularly those with pictures, I think about how great it must be to belong to Winged Foot, with its two world-class courses. Is Winged Foot the best two-course membership, or is there someplace (Baltusrol, Olympic etc) that's better?

« **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:15:36 PM »

I'm at Olympia Fields, which is pretty solid, but it doesn't beat Winged Foot, with two Top 100 courses and that magnificent clubhouse, not to mention the unbelievable amount of fabulous courses in the immediate area.

« **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:18:41 PM »

My boss, who has seen both, said Oakland Hills might top Winged Foot. I haven't seen either.

Others include LA Country Club, Atlanta Athletic and Merion.

« **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:20:36 PM »

Quote from: John Vander Borght on June 14, 2006, 12:18:41 PM

My boss, who has seen both, said Oakland Hills might top Winged Foot. I haven't seen either.

Others include LA Country Club, Atlanta Athletic and Merion.

I've played LA Country Club a number of times and it is an unbelivevable venue, but the drop-off in quality from North to South probably keeps it out of Winged Foot's league, IMHO.

« **Reply #4 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:26:09 PM »

It depends on your priorities and tastes. Some individuals would be better served by two championship quality courses at a club like Winged Foot. But if you have a family membership at one club, do you want it to be two championship caliber courses? The differentiation between that arrangement and a club with one championship course and another quality course, but one that is a nice change of pace and more suitable to everday play by seniors, women and juniors might be favorable to others. I can see the rationale for either offering.

« **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:50:23 PM »

I guess you are only talking about courses in the USA, otherwise places like Royal Melbourne and Sunningdale would have to be considered. But, if you add my ratings of the two courses together, Winged Foot is probably at the top of the list, with a 9 and a 7.

Muirfield could surpass it with room to spare if they ever got permission to build on the dunesland we overlook from The Renaissance Club at Archerfield.

« **Reply #6 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:59:11 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on June 14, 2006, 02:50:23 PM

I guess you are only talking about courses in the USA, otherwise places like Royal Melbourne and Sunningdale would have to be considered. But, if you add my ratings of the two courses together, Winged Foot is probably at the top of the list, with a 9 and a 7.

Muirfield could surpass it with room to spare if they ever got permission to build on the dunesland we overlook from The Renaissance Club at Archerfield.

Anywhere in the world counts. Walton Heath too. I've only played WFW (and pathetically at that). How is the East Course different? I would think that two courses with similar features would weigh against the totality of the experience. One of the things I've heard about Baltusrol, for example, is that the Upper Course is quite a different experience from the Lower Course. I've only played the Lower. And both are good enough to have hosted national championships.

« **Reply #7 on:** June 14, 2006, 03:10:52 PM »

Phil -

If you include the 9-hole, par-3 Cliffs Course, the Olympic Club (Lake & Ocean) is a very attractive package.

Having played both Sunningdale Old & New in one day, it would be hard to beat that 36 holes of golf. Berkshire Red & Blue is darn nice as well.

DT

« **Reply #8 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:07:12 PM »

Baltustrol, Merion deserve mention, as does Saucon Valley, (Bethlehem, PA) with THREE great courses...but Winged Foot West is so good, it puts it on top, IMO.

« **Reply #9 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:43:35 PM »

I agree that WF has the 2 best courses but they are relatively similar from the same era by the same architect on similar land. I'v always fancied Saucon Valley as the best multi course club because there are 3 quite different courses in terms of terrain, style and architecture. None of the 3 rises to WFW but viva la difference.

« **Reply #10 on:** June 14, 2006, 04:50:27 PM »

Quote from: JGAndriole on June 14, 2006, 04:43:35 PM

I agree that WF has the 2 best courses but they are relatively similar from the same era by the same architect on similar land. I'v always fancied Saucon Valley as the best multi course club because there are 3 quite different courses in terms of terrain, style and architecture. None of the 3 rises to WFW but viva la difference.

If talking about 3 course clubs, I would say that Firestone deserves some mention. I have only played the North and South, I have heard the West is nothing terrible. The North is an absolute bear and it might be harder than the South. One of the best ranges around also.

« **Reply #11 on:** June 14, 2006, 07:37:05 PM »

Why has no one mentioned MPCC?

One must concede that for championship caliber golf it HAS to be Winged Foot.

For pure enjoyment, challenge and an overloading of the senses with natures best none can compete with Monterey Peninsula Country Club.

And why not a club hybrid consisting of a championship layout and a "little brother" as the "best" two course combination? Merion and Olympic come to mind as well as The Maidstone Club, which come to think of it, could compete with MPCC in esthetic surrounds and the walk in the park test.

« **Reply #12 on:** June 14, 2006, 08:28:34 PM »

The Dunluce and Valley at Portrush will probably cost about 10% of Winged Foot's dues, probably better golf too.

Tom: you've promoted WFE 1 point.

« **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2006, 08:45:16 PM »

There's an advantage having one shorter and clearly easier course. It's more attractive to the less talented players. Our host at Los Angeles CC mentioned that to me.

« **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2006, 08:50:43 PM »

Pumpkin Ridge is a fine two course complex, with two approximately equal courses. Tom rates them 6 and 5; I'd say 6 and 6. One course is open to the public, and more than 80% of the rounds played there are by the public.

« **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2006, 09:10:11 PM »

Quote from: Paul_Turner on June 14, 2006, 08:28:34 PM

The Dunluce and Valley at Portrush will probably cost about 10% of Winged Foot's dues, probably better golf too.

Tom: you've promoted WFE 1 point.

Paul:

Excellent choice in Portrush. Any others in the UK which you might consider? Turnberry?

« **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2006, 09:21:27 PM »

Not to change course here, but why was the decision made to build another venue ?

Was it to

??

« **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2006, 09:53:56 PM »

Quote from: Gene Greco on June 14, 2006, 07:37:05 PM

Why has no one mentioned MPCC?

I was thinking the same thing...

Royal Melbourne, The National (Australia), Turnberry and Troon would all be in with a show. Peninsula Country Club here in Melbourne will be one to consider, when Mike Clayton's work there is done.

Quote from: Gene Greco on June 14, 2006, 07:37:05 PM

And why not a club hybrid consisting of a championship layout and a "little brother" as the "best" two course combination?

I was thinking that too!

In that instance, "Minicock", or the par 3 course at Augusta would also bring Shinny and ANGC into the frame...

MM

« **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2006, 12:13:35 AM »

What about Oak Hill out in Rochester? How does it stack up? Which public facility takes the title? Does Bandon Dunes count? Whistling Straits? Blackwolf Run?

Doesn't PVGC technically also have two courses?

« **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2006, 02:00:34 AM »

Quote from: Matthew Mollica on June 14, 2006, 09:53:56 PM

The National (Australia)

What happened to the THIRD course there, Matt?

« **Reply #20 on:** June 15, 2006, 02:16:26 AM »

Don't you guys know they have a short course at Pine Valley?

« **Reply #21 on:** June 15, 2006, 07:37:28 AM »

Quote from: Sean Arble on June 15, 2006, 04:48:36 AM

I think Saunton deserves a mention. As Paul Turner pointed out one doesn't have to offer a limb for dues. Once Engh completes the his 9 holes at Carne this will be a very attractive proposition. Again, very cheap. In fact, I think they are selling Life Memberships for 5000 Euros (why don't I have a Euro key on my keyboard?). That is a one time payment for life with no other payment ever. I know someone that is taking up the offer as I type. This would probably be my choice if I was so inclined to join a club which requires travelling over water to play.

There are loads of two course places with the second course not so hot. Dornoch, St. Enodoc, Lahinch and Co. Down seem like they could be good enough to not bother with the second course. There is also Ballybunion. Some say the Cashen is poor, but I like it. Its a pity the town is a dump.

PS Out of curiosity, do you folks in the States have a Pounds Sterling key on your keyboard?

Ciao

Sean

The Euro symbol comes when you press Ctrl, Alt, and 4 at the same time.

Personally, I think the Cashen course at Ballybunion is fantastic. Completely unplayable in a strong wind (but when do you ever get one of those on the West coast of Ireland) but a number of absolutely spectacular holes.

« **Reply #22 on:** June 15, 2006, 08:47:14 AM »

Funny thing is that there is someone who posts on here who belongs to three of the candidates - WF, Portrush and Ballybunion. Guess the club had to have two courses before consideration was given regarding membership. Double the pleasure, double the fun!

« **Reply #23 on:** June 15, 2006, 09:04:19 AM »

Quote from: Gene Greco on June 15, 2006, 08:47:14 AM

Funny thing is that there is someone who posts on here who belongs to three of the candidates - WF, Portrush and Ballybunion. Guess the club had to have two courses before consideration was given regarding membership. Double the pleasure, double the fun!

And Machrihanish is building a second, thus soon to be a perfect quadruple double!!

« **Reply #24 on:** June 15, 2006, 09:17:51 AM »

Odd nobody has mentioned St. Andrews.

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