The Los Angeles Times has an article today about the Pebble Beach Company and its effort to build another golf course in Monterey through the Del Monte forest.

LA Times article

The Monterey pine forest is relatively scarce now and I imagine any course should be built with a minimum of tree removal.  if the course should be built, who would be the best designer?  Who routes best through trees?

Joe:  There isn't much point in debating "who would be the best designer" on this board, you'll just hear all the usual choices.  And none of them will matter because the project is Tom Fazio's if it happens.

the project is Tom Fazio's if it happens.

I didn't know the long history of the project.

http://www.golfcalifornia.com/pebble5.htm

I seem to be unable to find any preliminary routing or drawings of this proposed course.

The California Coastal Commission doesn't seem to have any information available other than "new golf course on 211 acres".  For instance: http://www.coastal.ca.gov/recap3/documents/TGrovtoMCO-10.23.00-Attach2.pdf

Does anyone have any links to Fazio's preliminary drawings or routings?

Joe,
   I don't know that there is anything down on paper at this point routing-wise. I have been hearing things over the past few years and it always seemed like Fazio was attached to it. I think many didn't expect to get past the Coastal Commission, so it hasn't been a hot issue.

18,000 trees seems like a lot?  The property sits to the right of the 5th hole of Cypress Point streching to the equestrian facility.  I spoke a few years ago to one of the limited partners about trying to get a group together and get Fazio removed but he wouldn't have any part of it.   The general partners (Eastwood, Palmer, Ferris and Ueberoth) control the operation and everyone else is just in for the free golf and the rubbing of the shoulders with the other partners.

Should be an interesting meeting on Wednesday.

Joel,

It is my understanding that the "Free Golf" is only offered at the Partners Tooniment, but they pay at other times.

Can you verify this?

Bob

The Monterey pine forest is relatively scarce now and I imagine any course should be built with a minimum of tree removal.  if the course should be built, who would be the best designer?  Who routes best through trees?

My mind went off at a tangent (as it often does) and it went to Seth Raynor.  One of the courses that I really enjoyed during my recent visit was MPCC Dunes (originally a Raynor course), and obviously Cypress Point (whose routing pedigree is often debated here).  Was Raynor one of the better architects when it came to dealing with trees?  My Raynor experience unfortunately is limited to these sites, both of which handle the use of coast, dunes and forest in a delightful way.

And, given that our views amount to nought on this topic, then Seth Raynor is as valid a suggestion for Pebble Beach II as we could make.

Joel,

I don't play in that league, but it would seem to me that to be a partner or investor one would have to be financially secure and lead a lifestyle which abhors any suggestion of pinching pennies.  Could it be that most of these well-heeled folks actually value Fazio's work and the instant market credibility it earns?

Ed,

Why shouldn't it be built?  When tourists, many non-golfers, go through the 20some mile drive, do they stop and look at the forest and raw land, or do they seem to congregate at the golf courses?  Are there not deer and other critters in sufficient numbers in and around the homes and courses?

Finding an architect who can route through trees and minimize the impact on the environment should be the easiest part.  Overcoming the anti-golf, zero-development mentality will be by far the greatest impediment.

Come to think of it, based on a conversation I had with the superintendent at Spanish Bay last year regarding the regulatory gymnastics he has to go through just to maintain his course, perhaps I should agree with Ed.  I guess the construction jobs, 30 - 50+ new permanent positions, and the taxes generated from the sales revenue are not siginifcant enough for the public decision makers.

If you'll indulge me (especially as my first post), my two cents:

I have always enjoyed courses with a fair amount (if not an abundance of) buffer zone between course and development (ie, houses).  Thus a course carved into the Del Monte forest is very appealing to the golfer in me.  That's said realizing I may get the chance to play the course once or twice at most.

Second, I believe that private land owners have the right to develop the land.  Certainly with certain restraint and consideration for the unique social & ecological surroundings each community holds (whether it's Monterey, CA or Louisville, KY is no matter).  Although I tend to be cynical in most subjects, I somehow believe that few developers (possibly read "businesses") are wasting extra energy with specific attempts to destroy resources (respective to their chosen markets).

If given the opportunity, I would approach a meeting with the Pebble Beach Co. &  its principals with an open mind.  I would believe (until proven otherwise) that while they (PBC) are certainly looking to fiscally take advantage of their asset through development, that they remain good stewards as members of the same community that their opponents believe they've set out to decimate.

Thanks for bearing with me.... maybe I was a little ambitious for my first post.

PS
Some background: the first time I ever picked up a golf ball was while living at Fort Ord, CA in the 1980s.  With Bayonet & Blackhorse as my earliest (& happiest) golfing memories, I have a soft spot for Monterey and its golfing legacy.

According to an article in today's SF Chronicle (www.sfgate.com), the developer of the course (Eastwood's group) has withdrawn their plan for the course. Their intention is to "refine and resubmit"  a plan for the course at a future date.  

Believe me there is much local opposition to this project.

How the California Coastal Commission achieved such enormous powers beyond their remit to protect the COAST is beyond me.

When viewing the mess in Malibu on Pacific Coast Highway there was a move to safeguard the coastline from the ravages of property development. The public voted for the formation of the CCC. However, it wasn't long before they started claiming jurisdiction over the next thousand yards from the coast and an even more egregious claim to go back inland to watershed land.

Bob