[DMoriarty]

[David Kelly]

Thats how Doak rolls.

[Steve Lang]

 

from stone eagle, all are requested to go directly to black mesa and tell us the difference

[Bill_McBride]

Steve, Huckaby and I have already been to Black Mesa, we'll let you know!  Who else was at Black Mesa and will be in Palm Springs at KPV?

I'm thinking there is a lot of visual similarity (from photos at least) between Black Mesa, Apache Stronghold and Stone Eagle.  The "rough" at both Black Mesa and what it looks like at Stone Eagle is mostly rock of varying composition and size.  At Apache Stronghold it was more scrubby sagebrush, etc.

[Tim Leahy]

Add a little orange tint and I think we have the first golf course on Mars!

[David Kelly]

One big difference visually between Black Mesa and Stone Eagle is that Stone Eagle's routing is much more contiguous than Black Mesa (or Apache Stronghold). There are many shared fairways and common areas at Stone Eagle and from the top of the 18th green at Stone Eagle you can basically see the entire course.

The picture on the main page of Stone Eagle's web site gives you a sense of this:
www.stoneeagleclub.com

[DMoriarty]

Add a little orange tint and I think we have the first golf course on Mars!

To add to what David is saying, one of the most interesting things about Stone Eagle is that, while the photos may not quite show it, you really do feel like you are actually playing a real golf course, not some sort of desert golf "on Mars."  The shared fairways and extraordinary width probably have the most to to with this, but also the way that Doak and Co. used the terrain.   Most desert courses I have played constrast with the terrain in more than just color, but that really doesnt seem to be the case at Stone Eagle.

For, example, I was quite suprised how the natural rock/dirt humps and mounds actually seemed to resemble links land dunes without the links land.    Here is a photo of from the first tee which might give you some idea of what I am talking about, although you really have to see it to understand . . .

[Anthony_Nysse]

I know that I'm going to get destroyed for this-It appears as though Doak and Co. tried too hard to make the bunekrs look natural-It almost look like someone with the paintgun had turrets. The holes look stunning with a lot of variety, fantastic vistas and rock outcroppings but I wish the bunkering didn't look so "tried."

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Matt_Ward]

I too will be most eager to hear from those who venture forward with the Black Mesa / Stone Eagle comparison.

One other thing -- I have to say that both the 4th and 18th holes are two of the finest long par-4's I have seen Tom Doak design. Each is different although they do share a common ingredient in playing downhill.

In fact, the 4th is truly a marvelous hole and it is where, I believe, that the qualities of Stone Eagle start in earnest.

Best of luck to all the participants -- you are all certainly in for a treat -- notwithstanding the cool temps.

[Joe Hancock]

Tony,

The place is new. Give the bunkers some time to find their way.

Joe

[DMoriarty]

I know that I'm going to get destroyed for this-It appears as though Doak and Co. tried too hard to make the bunekrs look natural-It almost look like someone with the paintgun had turrets.

Anthony,  Maybe it is just a matter of taste, but I thought the bunkers turned out well, much better than I expected when I first saw the unfinished site.  In particular, I was impressed with how well the bunkering tied into the natural landscape.  Because of the strong contrast in color and irrigated area vs. dry areas, this isnt easy to do, but IMO the rugged bunkers brought enough of the rugged surrounds into the course so as to make the contrast work for, rather than against the course.

Keep in mind that the sand generally appears whiter than it really is in the photographs-- bringing the sand into proper color would have darkened out too much of the rest of the details.  

Also the scale and elevation changes might be a little hard to understand in photos-- these are by no means little squiggly bunkers drawn on an otherwise lifeless canvas.  For example, while the photo doesnt really do it justice, take another look at the landing area bunker on the three shot eighth hole . . .


The tiny left-handed golfer (hopelessly) trying to extricate himself from this bunker is actually 6'5."  The bunker is  at the bottom of a large, rugged wash which runs up into the mountains to the right, and continues across the fairway as a swale to the left. The golfer can only see the steep sided wall of the wash and is probably around 25 feet below the level of the fairway directly in front of him.  

This same huge bunker is hardly noticeable just below dead center in this photo taken from the 7th tee.  


This photo also shows one of my favorite bunkers on the course, the one coming off the front left portion of the 7th green and tumbling down into the steep and deep wash which isn't really even visible in the photo.  The sand surface itself is contoured and very much three dimensional, following the natural flow of the landscape down into oblivion.  

Here are a few more photos where I was trying to capture how the edging bunkers were built into the surrounds even in more mundane locations.  







 

[George Pazin]

Thanks for the photos, Dave.

The odd juxtaposition of grass against desert surrounding makes it hard for me to love the look, but it sounds more forgiving than many desert courses. I look forward to hearing JohnV's report in person.

P.S. Looks like a lot less rock than BM.

[DMoriarty]

Thanks for the photos, Dave.

The odd juxtaposition of grass against desert surrounding makes it hard for me to love the look, but it sounds more forgiving than many desert courses. I look forward to hearing JohnV's report in person.

George, I know what you mean . . . I'd like to see some sort of an innovative solution to smooth the transition where grass meets the native.  One could argue that if they didnt keep the grass so darn green it would tone down the contrast, but I dont think this is realistic in the heat of the desert.  It seems there are only two shades of grass out there, green and dead.  

I think Doak and his crew had a few interesting ideas at Stone Eagle on smoothing the transition, but I am not sure whether they ever actually put them into service.  
______

In terms keeping in play, SE is certainly more forgiving than most desert and mountain courses.  Very wide and almost all cut to fairway heights.  That being said, there are some pretty wicked slopes and lies to help keep it interesting.

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