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ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« on: May 31, 2006, 12:37:17 PM »
Reading the recent issue of Links they are touting WN as easily the best public golf in the Seattle area. Also, the hypester goes on to say WN is reminiscent of the great English heathland courses. Any validity to this?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 12:38:11 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seattle golf Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 12:41:37 PM »
No. One of the better publics around here, but I don't believe it is the best (Gold Mountain is imo). A Doak 4 maybe.  Good golf course, but a couple of notches below the better privates here (which aren't great either)....

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 12:47:26 PM »
Sean,
   What aspects at WN are lacking that keep it from being a better course in your opinion?
    What about the "heathland" part?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2006, 12:58:27 PM »
...besides there being no "heath" in the "heathland"????

Seriously, that phrase must have been lifted from some promotional literature that the course created, because it is nothing even close...

I was a men's club member out there for a number of years.  It is a pleasant enough, basically flat golf course, which has now been "grown in" with houses.  Its unique positioning in this market stems from two aspects, I believe...1)  It tied itself originally to the University of Washington for marketing purposes, which gave it some good pub off the bat, as this is a very, very, very provincial UW dominated sports town  2)  The areas off the fairways have been "scraped out" and left as relatively unkempt "waste areas", with a darker shade of brown.  This does lend a different look to the course, as the stark white bunkers, the brownish-red waste areas, the evergreens surrounding the course and the green fairways do lend a nice color palette to the course.  This is in contrast to the typical Northwest rain forest look of many of our public courses up here...

Couldn't maintain its bloated price structure, and has recently offered some deep discounting...

Conditioning has been spotty at best

It is in the middle of nowheresville, as calling  "Auburn, Washington close to Seattle", is like calling Jules Pfeiffer "close to" Michelle Pfeiffer...

Sean had it pretty close, Doak 4-5 ish, and there are better public alternatives roughly the same distance away...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 01:00:05 PM by Peter_Herreid »

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2006, 01:13:03 PM »
Ed,

Having never played a heathland course, I can only speculate based upon what I have read , what that means.  WN was built with more of a Pine Valley motif in mind, with playable waste areas through much of the golf course. It was clearly built as a tournament course, as much was written about trying to lure an Open here in the future.  It is on a relatively flat piece of ground, with minimal elevation on just a couple of holes.  Water is in play on about 5 holes (don't believe that is a feature on Heathland tracks).  There are a couple of stinkers in my mind.  On 10, it is OB right with a large waste area that narrows very quickly from the left.  When the NCAA regionals were there, almost everyone took driver way left over the waste area into the 18th fairway, then approached from there with a short to mid iron.  There is a waterfall behind 14, which is a 3 wood and a pitch over a pond.    There are some good holes.  17 is a good par 5 with a 2 risk reward shots, (a cape style drive, plus a second over water) Eight is a drivable par 4 over water, where the safe play left leave a delicate pitch over a bunker.

In terms of making it better, I don't know, maybe some more interesting greens and more memorable par 3's ( I have played it 10 times and I had trouble remembering them all and I have a great memory for courses), as they are all a bit blah. One uphill, one down hill, two flattish. Overall it is just kind of uninspiring, a coourse that could be replicated anywhere. Frankly, I think a course down the street (Druid's Glen) may have a better layout...

Pat Howard

Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2006, 01:15:56 PM »
I agree with Sean for the most part. W.N. is a good course, but nothing special. I personally feel that Druids Glen right down the road is a better golf course.

As for Gold Mountain, I think that the Olympic course is one of the most overrated courses I've ever played. The design lacks originality and strategy. I've played there several times, and while I seem to score well there, I always leave wondering why I came back. Perhaps because of the hype. :-\

I hope that one day Washington will have a truely great golf course. I finally got out to Aldarra a few weeks ago and was very pleasantly surprised. Maybe there's still a chance!

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2006, 01:22:14 PM »
I agree with Sean and Pat that, certainly in terms of routing and how the holes fit on the land, Druids Glen has much more going for it than WashNat.  On a personal level, I have always found the overall experience at Trophy Lake to be much more enjoyable than either McCormick Woods or Gold Mountain.  I think Trophy Lake may be the best public-access example in this area of a course which takes best advantage of its surroundings.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2006, 01:26:19 PM »
Thanks for the straight scoop guys. I'm beginning to think Links has outlived it usefulness.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jordan Wall

Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2006, 03:17:18 PM »
Washington National is a decent course, great conditioning and yes it is cartball.
 :-\

It has some really great holes.  It also has some really weird holes.  I can assure you it is not heathland, that is a fact.  It can be extremely long from the tips, but I do not even think the Huskies always play from back there.  It is like 7500 yards and some holes require 260 yard carries to the fairway which is pretty hard.  The greens are huge, and very undulating, some are good, some are downright boring.  So overall, it is a good course but not the best in Seattle or the Northwest.

I dont know if Druids in necassarily better, but Gold Mountain is.
A Doak 4 probably, and GM is about a 5.

Pat, Gold Mountain the most overrated??  I love that course.

Gerry B

Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 11:13:04 PM »
decent course - but would not get any attention if located in the northeast of the us or eastern canada - and I bleed purple and gold.

Andy Silis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2006, 08:32:03 AM »
Aldarra is one of the better Tom Fazio designs I've played. Good routing, with an interesting mix of holes. Far and away the best conditioned course year round in mostly soggy Seattle.

Pat Howard

Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 12:07:14 PM »
It's also one of the few, if not the only course in the NW that still has bent grass fairways and greens. When I was there they were doing Poa control in several areas, but the greens were still bent, very rare to see in the NW as Poa usually takes over fairly quickly. :'(

And yes, Jordan, our views of Gold Mountain's Olympic course differ. It's a good track, just not a very memorable one for me. Different opinions are what make the world great! I hope we're still friends! ;) ;D
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 12:09:18 PM by Pat Howard »

Jordan Wall

Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2006, 12:09:59 PM »
It's also one of the few, if not the only course in the NW that still has bent grass fairways and greens. When I was there they were doing Poa control in several areas, but the greens were still bent, very rare to see in the NW as Poa usually takes over fairly quickly. :'(

And yes, Jordan, our views of Gold Mountain's Olympic course differ. It's a good track, just not a very memorable one for me. Different opinions are what make the world great! I hope we're still friends! ;) ;D

Of course Pat.
 ::) ;) ;D :)

We need to get another game together...

Jordan Wall

Re:Seattle golf - Is Washington National all that?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2006, 01:29:08 PM »
It's also one of the few, if not the only course in the NW that still has bent grass fairways and greens. When I was there they were doing Poa control in several areas, but the greens were still bent, very rare to see in the NW as Poa usually takes over fairly quickly. :'(


Just last week I played WA National a few times.  I took note of the original post and I can say that in a weird way, it may be the best public course in WA.  Gold Mountain is great for a public aound here, but WA National has so much variety.  The Par-4's are great, and all the long holes offered room for a run up shot, and the conditioning was good enough where running the ball onto a green proved to be possibly the best way to get close.
This type of conditioning is what many WA courses lack, IMO.  The greens were somewhat slow but they were firm and that really made me think about what type of shot to hit.  The smaller greens, on the easier holes, were hard targets and still managed a good test.  I have come to a new conclusion that WA National is a better course than I might have stated earlier.

I do not think however, that it is reminiscent of older heathland courses, even though I have not actually played one.  This course is definitley a lot newer, and even I can realize that.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 01:29:34 PM by Jordan Wall »