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John Kavanaugh

South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..
« on: May 30, 2006, 08:23:17 AM »
The Warren Course, South Bend CC, Morris Park CC and the university nine hole course on campus.  What is the history of each course in how they relate to the university and town of South Bend.  The Warren Course was established in 1999...so where did the Notre Dame golf team play before then..

I'm having a little trouble getting a handle of what makes South Bend tick outside of the university...I didn't play any of the courses yet but toured all but SBCC and came away impressed that South Bend is a town with a little bit for anyone who may choose to golf a ball.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 11:20:47 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Mike_Sweeney

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2006, 09:37:54 AM »
At my sister's graduation from now combined St Mary's, I remember the on campus course being 18 holes. My guess is 9 holes were lost to dorms or other but Patrick would be the one to answer.

So how did Warren compare to Cuscowilla? Did it confirm or deny your belief that C&C have a repetitive look?

John Kavanaugh

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2006, 10:35:11 AM »

So how did Warren compare to Cuscowilla? Did it confirm or deny your belief that C&C have a repetitive look?

At the Warren Course I only walked to the pro shop past the putting green and tenth tee...The bunker scheme of the tenth looks very much like what would be found at Cuscowilla and the putting green is exactly what can be found on the greens at Bandon Trails.  Without a doubt anyone can tell the Warren Course is C&C very very quickly...which is a very very good thing.  let me make this perfectly clear...I am 100% happy that the Notre Dame and C&C got together to build the course and look forward to a round or two in the future.

I am currently renting a house in South Bend until August 7th and would love to have an outing at any or all of the courses in town.  Please let me know what weekends might work for anyone interested.

The on campus course looks like 18 holes but I'm really not sure...It just looks like pure golf with 95% of the people walking with zero frills and interesting greens..

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2006, 10:45:40 AM »
Did the ND golf team ever play Blackthorn for any tournaments?

Blackthorn Golf Club is a pretty interesting course, and if I recall, the greens are fairly interesting.  I believe its a Hurdzan design that was opened in 1994.  Its worth seeing!!!

John, I would certainly be up for a little summer get together in South Bend.  Anybody else interested?  I think Blackthorn, the Warren, and if we could swing South Bend, would be worth playing.
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2006, 12:51:19 PM »
I am really struggling with the words Notre Dame, South Bend and culture going together. The first two yes but the 3rd, no way.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2006, 01:20:02 PM »
I am really struggling with the words Notre Dame, South Bend and culture going together. The first two yes but the 3rd, no way.

Must be a Trojan, used.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2006, 02:12:07 PM »
Tiger, From Early September to Early January, there is certainly an ever present culture on the campus of the University of Notre Dame.  NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!

Same thing at UNC and Duke during the winter!!!

But anyways, who's up for some golf?
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Michael Kim

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2006, 02:41:17 PM »
John,

The Notre Dame golf team used to play on the Burke Course before the Warren course was built. The Burke Course was a full 18 holes until it was cut to 9 in order to build the new dorms on campus. From what I heard, the lost 9 was the better 9 on the Burke. Now, it's just a simple, good-for-what-it-is 9-hole course.

The Warren course has really grown in and matured very nicely. The greens are now very smooth and fast. I've posted pictures of it before on this site and people were amazed how Crenshaw/Coore was able to set up many playing angles, illusionary bunkers, and do so much on very uninspired land.

I'm just a little pissed right now that after my graduation from here, that the Warren course doesn't offer a summer golf pass. I was counting on that as I spend my summer here...

John Kavanaugh

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2006, 02:48:31 PM »
Michael,

How would you describe the greens and bunkers on the Burke Course and what percentage a students rounds would you guess are played there when compared to the Warren.

Kyle Harris

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2006, 03:20:53 PM »
Tiger, From Early September to Early January, there is certainly an ever present culture on the campus of the University of Notre Dame.  NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!

Same thing at UNC and Duke during the winter!!!

But anyways, who's up for some golf?

They haven't won a Bowl in ten years... try middle December.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2006, 03:25:54 PM »
Kyle -

Great point! ;D
Mr Hurricane

John Kavanaugh

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2006, 03:41:45 PM »
I'm thinking of setting up a thing at the Warren Course on June 24th..How does that fit..


Ken Fry

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Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..June 24th Outing
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2006, 05:41:44 PM »
Jaka,

The orginial course at ND is nothing to spend your time on.  Even when it was 18, it was mediocre at best.  Students play it more than Warren due to price and location.

The golf teams moved out to Blackthorn in 1995-96 for practice and tournaments.  The Big East Championship was also held there during the time before Warren opened.  The Big East Championship in spring 2000 officially opened the course.

South Bend CC would be worth seeing.  Let me know if you would like to get out there to play.

Ken

Jim Thompson

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Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..June 24th Outing
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2006, 07:26:51 PM »
FYI-

From the stadium to the front door of Angels is an hour and a half on game day.

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

John Kavanaugh

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..June 24th Outing
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2006, 09:30:07 PM »
Ken,

I will take you up on the South Bend offer if you can join me...You can be proud of your legacy at Notre Dame, when I asked about you the girls couldn't stop gushing..

I'll let you know when I will be back in town...shoot me an IM with some contact numbers.

Even though I doubt that I will ever play it..the thing that interests me about the Burke course is the people who play it from what looks like all walks of life...It is a beautiful scene against the golden dome.  Gotta be in the top 100 coolest nine holers in the country.

Andy Troeger

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..June 24th Outing
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2006, 11:45:15 PM »
John,
  South Bend really does have a nice place in the golfing world with the fairly recent additions of Warren and Blackthorn. SBCC and Morris Park are both good old style courses, although very different from each other. SBCC has wonderful terrain set on a lake with a great mix of holes, while MPCC is in the city and is generally very flat with the exception of a couple holes.
  Warren and Blackthorn are also very good...I believe Blackthorn opened in 1995 (might have been 94, but I thought they celebrated 10 years last year...all flows together anyway) and Warren 1999. I enjoy them both...Blackthorn had the better land IMO to begin with, Warren is probably more strategic in its design. Its personal preference I think which one is better...I've heard arguments both ways.
   Also worth a quick mention is the two SB municipal courses, Elbel and Erskine, that are difficult to beat for under $20 walking anytime for local residents.
   I played Burke once before the they built dorms on the back nine in the mid/late 90's. I don't recall the back nine being much different from the front, except that I think it was the 13th that had a wonderful view heading straight at the Dome. That made the round worthwhile, even if the golf was straightforward. I still enjoy walking up #9 and having the Dome and my old dorm sitting in the background :)  I kind of doubt even that nine will be around that much longer the way the university keeps expanding...but its hard to say.  As Ken said, the students do play it quite a lot as its more convenient to campus and I think was something like $6 for students.
   I'd be interested in joining anyone that wants to come play...although I will be out of town on the 24th.

Andy Troeger

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2006, 07:24:12 AM »
Hmm...looks like I must have killed the thread! In an effort to revive it I'll say that I think if SBCC were in the Indianapolis area it would likely be in the top ten in the state despite it being pretty short (6500 yds, par 71)...it suffers from nobody knowing much about it outside the area.  

I'm just throwing this out there...anyone care to agree/disagree?  Since more have played it, is Warren in the same category?

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2006, 08:18:33 PM »
Jaka,

Later in the summer I may be able to join you for a round.  Let me know the dates you're in South Bend and I'll come over from Fort Wayne.

Ken

Jim Thompson

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Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2006, 10:58:18 PM »
Ken,

You and John coming up again?

Maybe we could turn this into a home and home type event, catholics vs heathens or something ala the Miami catholics vs convicts game ;D?

Maybe green vs orange matches...

Bushmills vs Jamesons

Cheers!

JT
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 11:00:18 PM by Jim Thompson »
Jim Thompson

Brian Joines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2006, 07:15:59 AM »
My opinion is that South Bend CC is the best course here in South Bend. It is a great course with a lot of fun holes.

After SBCC would come Warren and Blackthorn. Both are relatively new and challenging. I would give the edge to Warren, although I really hate the holes on the 80/90 Toll Road.

I have only played Morris Park a handful of times and not anytime within the last year, so it's hard to judge it. I have enjoyed the course when I get out there but it feels a little crammed in at times. The holes run so close together that you have to always be watching for errant shots from the next hole over.

I play most of my golf at Knollwood CC. It's 36 very average holes of golf. The West course is the more interesting of the two layourts that played host to a Hooters Tour Event last week. I play here because it's right by my house and with two courses it's less crowded. I've played 18 holes in under two hours each of the last two afternoons. If I am not playing here, I'm usually at South Bend CC. The 25 minute drive to SBCC is a pain with Knollwood right in my backyard.

There are definitely some note-worthy courses in town and I hope you get a chance to get out and play them all.

And please keep us updated on a possible outing.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2006, 07:17:39 AM by Brian Joines »

Andy Troeger

Re:South Bend/Notre Dame Golf - Culture..
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2006, 08:28:18 PM »
Well a couple of days later I guess at least nobody completely bashed by SBCC theory...even if nobody agreed with it either :)  Oh well.

Brian,
I do agree that MPCC is built on a tight piece of property. The holes are relatively close together and I certainly hit a few in wrong fairways there over the course of 17 years playing it, but other than #7 (with #4 tee left and #9 right) there's not too many holes where I normally ever worried that much about hitting somebody, and even those had plenty of tree cover. As errant as I can be, that is somewhat of a statement :)  

In SB alone, Juday Creek and Erskine seem much more crammed in than MPCC.  

I would pretty well agree with your comments re: Knollwood. The drive is worth it to SBCC :)

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