Kyle,

   I agree with your choice of #11 at Reading. I seem to recall some discussion that it is not an original hole.

    On the "Reading " thread I mentioned a hole at Rock Manor in Wilm. De.(#13, I believe) .That is probably a third tier course.

14-Moraine
4-Springfield CC
12-Holston Hills
12- Broadmoor CC
3- CC of Hudson
13-Huntington CC
11-Coldstream CC

Phil,

I had quite a few from the Red Course in mind, also Lulu Country Club in this area.

I'm not sure what a second tier course is but Cobb's Creek has some outstanding holes.  They've changed the routing progression a few times so I'm not sure how its played these days.

Merion West has some holes that would be among the finer holes on most any course including 4,5,9,11,12,14-18 with 6-8 being quirky and lots of fun.

Philadelphia must have a lot of dynamite holes . . . or a lot of second-tier courses.  

Yeah, just kidding Kyle.  I can't say I'm that familiar with those courses but it seems like you have plenty from which to choose.  I only wish Denver had such a collection of courses.  

#5-#11-#18 at Bulle Rock..

I can't believe we're calling all of these GREAT courses "second-tier". I know Philly is the best area for golden age architecture anywhere but I have to think the first tier includes more than two top 10 courses. I refuse to call HVCC, MGCC, Aronimink and RGGC second tier courses. Second tier courses wouldn't be in the top 100 (of any ranking).

But to get back to the thread, the now 9th at Walnut Lane and the 2nd at Melrose are two great holes on 2nd tier courses.

Wayne, I agree with all of the holes you said on Merion West, but you forgot number 7! The approach is very similar to the 11th at the East with the creek winding its way across the front and around the right side of the green. A few weeks ago I hit 5 iron off the tee, had lob wedge into the green and still made a bogey.

Mike Malone,

The 11th at Reading CC is an original hole.  It's also would likely make my top 18 holes in the Del Valley, topping a more famous one where we had dinner the other night.

Bill S.

Your mention of #2 at Melrose is a great one.  What a fabulous, memorable, unknown hole.

Tom Paul needs to get back over there to look at it.

Wayne/Mike,

If I might be so bold, I'd really partial to the following holes at Cobbs Creek; 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, and 17.

That's not bad for a lowly muni, huh?

Now if they ever get some real greens that don't resemble the top of my head.

Believe me, Bill, considering my time at Rolling Green, it is despite my being a former "homer" that I feel it is first among equals in the tier below PVGC and MGC.  It just has everything needed for a great golf course, as good a topography as anywhere in the country--save maybe Augusta National say friends that know.  It has a wonderful variety of long and short holes and a routing progression that flows beautifully.  There is a truly great set of Flynn greens, maybe the best Flynn greens in the state.  If only the bunkers could be restored to the size and shapes of the original design--the recent photographs found in the Library Company of Philadelphia will allow for that, then along with continued tree management, the course will really come into its own.  Maybe I do jump ahead a bit and consider the full potential, but isn't that the architectural underpinning that allows this?  In this sense it truly is great.  But don't believe me, ask Ran    

What Lehigh cannot have is a great collection of long holes.  The result being that it cannot test the best players like Rolling Green can in its way and Aronimink does in its different way.  Lehigh is a great course but it doesn't have all the tools.  Its like a Richie Ashburn--great fielding, running, hitting for average, on base percentage and arm, but no power.  Still a Hall of Famer though

I agree about adding some Bobby Weed to the list of great holes on second-tier courses.  I'll have to go back soon to White Manor and see again for myself.

Hey, Mike C.  For those of us that are Melrose challenged, can you please describe the 2nd there?  I'll take a look at Google Earth to see what you're talking about--from above at least.  Thanks!  #11 at Reading CC must be something special for it to top the 11th you refer to!

Wayne,

If you look for it, this is the hole;

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Huntingdon+Valley,+PA&ll=40.054991,-75.104266&spn=0.003827,0.010729&t=k&om=1

What you can see is that it's a widely swinging dogleg left par five to a green with some really large bunkers short on both sides, the right one extending all the way to the green.

You can also see that tall, mature trees run down the left side of the hole.

What you can't see is the roller-coaster nature of this part of the property, or the fact that the left side at the tree line falls off precipitously to doom and despair.  

At about the 250 mark from the tee, the landform drops into a deep bowl which can help you or hurt you depending on the length and angle of the drive.  The daring play flirts with the trees on the left side and gets enough of a turbo boost to go for the green in two, although the approach might be blind depending on how far up the next hill the drive has carried.  A shot entering the bowl but hanging out further to the right is left with a very awkward downhill/sidehill lie and almost certainly needs to lay up short of the bunkers, but because the hole is only about 520 yards, may get stupid and go for it anyway.

Up around the green things get very narrowed and tight.  OB and the clubhouse lurk just behind and the left side tumbles down a steep bank.

Essentially, on the hole you are trying to "ride the ridge" as close to death as nerve allows.   It's a hole where you can make 3, or make 8 just as quickly.