NGLA, SH, Maidstone, and FH.

How do these courses compare to each other and what are some of the major differences between them??

They are all very beautiful.

They are all really hard clubs to join

Are those really the big Four.  I thought the big four might include Winged foot, and Bethpage Black before Maidstone.  Also Sebonick when it shows up?


Shinnecock
National

Winged foot
Friars
Bethpage
Maidstone


Quaker ridge.

This is how I would rate them.  You?

Jordan,
    These are some of the finest courses in the country. It will take a whole lot more than a post here to start breaking down all the factors that go into making those courses great.
    I would read Ran's course profiles first and then ask specific questions.
    The Redan question is specific, but I can't answer it since I haven't played both.

I honestly am not sure that those are the "Big Four" consensus for NY.  Who cares, it's all individual, whatever you like.

My order of personal preference?

NGLA
SH
FI
Maidstone/Garden City, Fenway (I enjoy asmuch as QR)/Winged Foot W & E and for some stupid reason I am really, really partial to Piping Rock (which also has a good redan, better than SH)  I personally prefer old courses, can you tell?

Is that because you're old?  

Jordan:

All four are very different examples of fine golf architecture, but each one is special because of its setting, to begin with.

National is a roller-coaster up and over ridges and down again, with more golf holes running away in the distance, and when you get to the 17th tee the view is unreal.  It's the perfect site for Macdonald's style and has THE best versions of many of his favorite holes.

Shinnecock is a different kind of roller-coaster ... the routing is a series of triangles so you're facing the wind at different directions.  But you can see much of it from that spectacular clubhouse setting on the hill, and the grasses between the holes are a thing of beauty.

Maidstone starts and ends at the beach club although it's never in play ... you go out and back through a very flat stretch of marshy ground and lagoons, but at the far end you get to play some of the only true links golf in America, including two absolutely world-class golf holes, the par-4 ninth and par-3 14th with the Atlantic Ocean for a backdrop.

Friars Head is a scruffy, dunesy site with some spectacular bunkering ... it feels more like Pine Valley to me than most of the imitations, although they did not go to the extreme of making every hole an island in the sand.

The reason The Bridge and Atlantic are not quite in this class is because they don't have the same sort of character; you couldn't describe either of them in four lines like that.  Hopefully Sebonack will hold its head up in the neighborhood.

Tom-  that was certainly a very thoughtful and patient explanation-  almost parental in nature.  Well stated. I have played all those courses and appreciate your insight. It helps me appreciate them even more.
   Jordan,  one of the problems with this type of question is that many of us are just so passionate about golf and the reverence of these courses, that the question almost borders on the ridiculous (with all due respect).  That's probably why so many of the comments are rather curt.  You could spend days debating a big 4.  And it's probably not important anyway since there are so many great ones in New York.
    When I read your post I was thinking the following; answering your question is like asking someone in your dad's generation who was more beautiful and why:   Sophia Loren, Marilyn Monroe, Raquel Welch, or Liz Taylor-  it can't really be done.  

Jordan Wall,

Have you purchased or read "Scotland's Gift" or "The Evangelist of Golf" ?

If not, go no further in your studies without reading them.

Jordan,

Here is my Big Ten on Long Island:

1. National
2. Shinnecock
3. Garden City
4. Piping Rock - many will disagree with this one
5. Maidstone
6. Friars Head
7. Bethpage Black - with Winged Footish greens it would vault to #3
8. The Creek
9. Atlantic
10. The Bridge

* never played East Hampton, Westhampton or Sebonack. Montauk has the potential to take #10.

Sleepers:

St George's
Seawane
Inwood
Southampton

Maidstone also looks beautiful.  #9 is amazing, a PV hole look-alike, say with dunes on the sides of the hole instead of pits.

Aside from the fact that #9 Maidstone might be better than any hole at PV, it also happens to be situated hard by the sea in the dunes with lovely bare maidens taking the sun during the summer months.

Indeed, for a 16 year old male, #9 at The Maidstone could be considered the greatest hole in the world.

It amazes me to see Piping Rock that high on some people's lists.  It was pretty run down when we did the work on it for Mr. Dye twenty years ago, and the course had really fallen out of favor on Long Island.

Tom,

I played it many years ago, both before and after your work was done. "Run Down" is a good and accurate description. I never knew you did the work. Good job, a really good job.

Quote from: Gene Greco on May 16, 2006, 11:13:01 AM

Quote from: Jordan Wall on May 15, 2006, 08:47:18 PM

Maidstone also looks beautiful.  #9 is amazing, a PV hole look-alike, say with dunes on the sides of the hole instead of pits.

Aside from the fact that #9 Maidstone might be better than any hole at PV, it also happens to be situated hard by the sea in the dunes with lovely bare maidens taking the sun during the summer months.

Indeed, for a 16 year old male, #9 at The Maidstone could be considered the greatest hole in the world.

Only if he desires early Social X-Ray's and is willing to cede himself to cute pink whales

PS......He can do better!!!

Hmph.

I am not so sure anything better can be had.
 

Piping Rock is a very cool looking courses, and the greens look brutal.  The redan bunker is one of the deepest I have ever seen in my life.  12 feet is no bargain.