I got to thinking about Arnold Palmer as I was clicking around trying to figure out where to squeeze in a twilight 18.

Why don't we talk about his courses more often?

I believe he had the rap at one time of being too punitive.  I have played two of his courses, one of which I swore I would never go back to.  And I haven't.

The other is, to me, is the best public layout in Atlanta.  A wonderful piece of property into which Palmer/Ed Seay melded a gamut of strategy risk/reward and beauty. You get some tricks here and there, which is fine with me, but mostly solid, straight ahead stuff.  There are more options on that course than any other I have played, I believe.

Overall, there is more variety, invention and straight-out fun on that course than any other I can think of.

Why don't we talk about Arnie?

John,

Cherokee Run

Cherokee Run is where I'm playing this afternoon.  Meet me?

The one I didn't like was .. Eagle Watch (?) north of town, not to be confused with Eagle's Landing.

I tossed in the towell on that one after putting across a green into a pond.  My bad, though.

I do not like #17.  It is a terrible hole.  A shoe-horn job to take up space.  #15 and #16 both are stellar holes, so perhaps #17 was sacrificed to them.

As a critic at heart, I am trying to change the way that I assess golf courses.. looking for the good rather than the bad.

Do you think there's a way to fix that hole?  It seems to me they got stuck with it and did the best they could.

I get pissed when I stand on the tee at 17 - it ruins a great stretch of holes, 15 & 16 as you mentioned and 18 is a really good finisher.

I don't know if they could do this with the land or the wetlands, but they need to straighten out the drive angle - move the tees out to the right so you don't have to hook a 5 iron off the tee.  They also need to provide some sort of reasonable landing area to give you a decent second shot.

As it stands now, a well-placed, hooked 5 iron off the tee leaves you on a steep downhill lie - not only is there no chance to go for the green, you are facing 200 yards of wetland to carry just to make it to the layup area.

Any thought of going for the green is shut off by the creek in front.  In my mind, they need to give you a little more of a chance either at the end of your first shot or your second shot.

I've tried to think of different ways to play this hole - including hitting 3-wood off the tee over the dogleg/trees in an insane attempt to find that little finger of flat fairway between the cart path and the wetlands.  This, of course, was during the scramble when we had a safe one in the fairway.

Let me know how you played it today!

Andy

Andy,

Also:  I'd be interested to know what you think is too punitive about CR.

There's a lot of vegetation, wetlands, native areas, etc. that result in a lot of lost balls.  Other courses (like the Frog as an example) have a lot of the vegetation cleared out & while you might have pulled one over in the trees, you can usually find your ball and though it might be a tough shot you usually have some sort of recovery option(s).

Andy

Gary, I agree with your sentiments on Cherokee Run. Lotsa good holes, many with an option to be heroic or to play it safe. I think 12 is also a terrific par 5.

Another Palmer course that I really enjoyed was The Majors in Palm Bay, FL (5 minutes from my parents house!). Some cool risk/reward holes there too. #3 is a bite-off-as-much-as-you-can cape hole. #4 is a mid length par 4 where challenging a left side fairway bunker gives you a nice kick forward and takes the green side bunkers out of play. #13 is a driveable par 4 with trouble all around. #5 is a long par 3 with a front to back sloping green that can be used to feed the ball to back hole locations. There are some options on the par 5s too. It's not your typical dead flat, water, marsh, and palm trees Florida course.

The major bummer is an ugly drainage ditch that comes into play on several holes and some run of the mill tract housing along a few holes.

Course tour and some photos at http://www.majorsgolfclub.com/theCourse.jsp

I'll probably play the Palmer course in Whistler, B.C. this summer. Feedback appreciated if anyone's played there...

TimT

Andy,

Once you say 5-iron off the tee on a par-5 that pretty much seals it.  

However, the par-5's on the front side are practically dizzy with the options they offer.  Both are to my mind unique.  The exposed granite from Stone Mountain on #5 is a wonderful touch, and while an accomplished drive on #9 opens up wonderful possibilites, and an average drive opens up Pandora's box.

#3 is a fantastic challenge.  Nothing wrong with having to take 9 on a par 3 if you don't hit it right.  

#8 is a very nice short par 4 with the elevation change and "Tree Rollins" on the right side of the fairway.

#10 requires two very precise shots.  

Well, I'm getting boring.  But I also think the routing is sublime.. the way much of the course circles above and below a ridge.

I think it's great.  

I actually like Eagle Watch a great deal.  #2 was the hole where you putted across the green into the pond, I imagine, and that green is a little severe, I'll grant you.  Other than that and the fact that it is a very tough walk because of green-to-tee distances, I think it is an excellent layout.  The Canongate chain has bought Eagle Watch now, so it is lost to the general public, though it will be in much, much better condition.

I've wondered about the lack on interest in Palmer courses as well.  In the limited sampling I've played, I've found nothing but quality design.

20 years ago I played the Palmer course at Half Moon Bay.  Very disappointing.  The last hole, which ran along the ocean, was interesting and scenic.  But also easy: was left with only a pitching wedge for my second shot.  Wind conditions could certainly change that.  

There may have been one or two other interesting holes.  But I walked off feeling let down by Arnie.  Expected more -- foolish me!

Paul J:

I've not played Star's Mill.  I think CR is the only Palmer I've played.  Don't let my ragging on #17 make you think I don't like the course - I do like it a lot.

AD

Spencer T. Olin in St. Louis (actually Alton, IL) is a first rate public course in the area.  I am not sure how much Palmer was involved.  It hosted the 99 Men's Publinx.

Good length, some strategy & risk-reward holes.    

I have only played 1 Palmer course, Musgrove Mill outside og Spartanburg, SC. The course was incredible. I will agree that it is very punishing, especially if you are not driving it well. Although I played bad, I must say it was a great layout. I am playing Rivertowne CC in Chalreston this week, which is a Palmer. Has anyone played this course? Let me know.

Played Rivertown 1x and really enjoyed it.  Nice layout, several thought- provoking shots.  Would play it again and probably label it my favorite public course in North Charleston area.  Dunes West is right across the street and I liked it, too, but not as much as Rivertown (Dunes West = Art Hills...oh oh.)