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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« on: April 28, 2006, 10:52:34 AM »
I played Sage Valley Masters week. It is a very high end course just outside of Augusta in South Carolina. It appears to be an attempt to create an Augusta National exprience in a new Fazio course. The service is second to none as are the facilities. The land was as good as one would find in that part of the world. However, the course was very close to just another Fazio course. The sight lines were great but the greens and routing were just ok. Why does this story keep getting repeated with Fazio? Is he the Jack N of this decade? He seems to get great land and budgets yet the course is good but not great. I will say I think the bones of a Fazio course are generally better than Jacks work.
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John Goodman

Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2006, 11:03:25 AM »
Tiger, have you played Dancing Rabbit over in Mississippi or Old Overton in Birmingham?  The latter especially is very good I think - unlike a lot of Fazio I've seen, some really fine holes.  
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Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2006, 11:17:39 AM »
Tiger,

A member from my club played Augusta this fall.  He loved everything about the place.

He played Sage Valley the day before.

His exact comment was with a straight face "Sage Valley is a better course" :o !

You can't make this stuff up ;D

Jason
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You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2006, 01:56:50 PM »
Jason--

I have heard the same comments concerning Sage Valley and Augusta National so it's not as unusual as you might think.  

Had the chance to play Sage Valley last year and found it to be an excellent course, although I don't want to say much more about it because it was VERY WET.  I really liked the 3rd hole, particularly the drive and the 8th is an interesting dogleg par five.  One thing for sure, the service there is incredible and the fried pickles are pretty good too if you like that kind of thing.  

Interesting tidbit about Sage Valley.  Crenshaw and Coore were the first architects approached for the job here and they turned it down and recommended Tom Fazio for the design.

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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 02:10:22 PM »
Quote from: Adam_Messix on April 28, 2006, 01:56:50 PM
Jason--

Interesting tidbit about Sage Valley.  Crenshaw and Coore were the first architects approached for the job here and they turned it down and recommended Tom Fazio for the design.



I would love to hear the back story to that.

I have it on pretty good authority that C&C were the first firm approached for the Crabapple job.
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Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 02:13:02 PM »
Quote from: John Goodman on April 28, 2006, 11:03:25 AM
Tiger, have you played Dancing Rabbit over in Mississippi or Old Overton in Birmingham?  The latter especially is very good I think - unlike a lot of Fazio I've seen, some really fine holes.  

"Dancing Rabbit" . . . where do they come up with these names for golf courses?
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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 03:00:26 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on April 28, 2006, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: Adam_Messix on April 28, 2006, 01:56:50 PM
Jason--

Interesting tidbit about Sage Valley.  Crenshaw and Coore were the first architects approached for the job here and they turned it down and recommended Tom Fazio for the design.



I would love to hear the back story to that.

I have it on pretty good authority that C&C were the first firm approached for the Crabapple job.

Any ideas that you can post as to why C&C would have taken a pass?  I would think they would've loved that site.
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"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Ryan Farrow

Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2006, 03:52:18 PM »
If the owners wanted to make a replica of Augusta I am pretty sure thats the reason C&C did not take the job.  ;D
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2006, 04:42:27 PM »
Ben Crenshaw loves Augusta, so I don't think that would be the reason for them to turn down the job.  More likely they were just busy with other things.  They've recommended other architects for jobs often -- I've been the beneficiary once or twice myself.
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2006, 06:43:05 PM »
Bette and I have played Sage Valley and we can tell you that it is terrific including the greens and the bunkering. This is not a Fazio let down by any stretch of the imagination.

Forget about the amenities which are world class, so is the golf course.
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2006, 12:05:11 PM »
Quote from: A.G._Crockett on April 28, 2006, 03:00:26 PM
Quote from: BCrosby on April 28, 2006, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: Adam_Messix on April 28, 2006, 01:56:50 PM
Jason--

Interesting tidbit about Sage Valley.  Crenshaw and Coore were the first architects approached for the job here and they turned it down and recommended Tom Fazio for the design.



I would love to hear the back story to that.

I have it on pretty good authority that C&C were the first firm approached for the Crabapple job.

Any ideas that you can post as to why C&C would have taken a pass?  I would think they would've loved that site.

According to a regional rag I was reading the other day, the reason that C&C passed on the site was that it required too much earth to be moved for their tastes, and thus they recommended Fazio.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 12:07:52 PM »
I have a couple of questions....What is the point of a thread like this and how many good but not great courses are found on the Golfweek lists..
« Last Edit: May 01, 2006, 12:09:09 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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Doug Sobieski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2006, 12:21:28 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on May 01, 2006, 12:07:52 PM
....how many good but not great courses are found on the Golfweek lists..

Is the answer 42? I think I'm pretty close. Higher or lower?

 :)
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 06:57:42 AM »
NBC, CBS, ABC all turned down "American Idol"
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 10:22:56 AM »
Well, I didn't do any Fazio bashing, but how about C&C?  C&C also turned down the job at Boston GC, because the site was too severe, and they recommended Gil Hanse for it.  Old Sandwich is supposedly the less-severe site, but a few here have said they like Gil's Boston GC better than Old Sandwich!  Go figure.
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Paul Payne

Re:Sage Valley another Fazio almost....
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2006, 11:04:20 AM »
Doug,

42 is close. It is actually the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
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