It was my understanding that architects often do not take responsibility for cart path layout, because of liability concerns.  Is that the case?

That's some good investigaive work, David! Unbelievable that a single course could have 5 driving holes with a cart path crossing them! That's a must see.

We've got a 5 on the board, can anybody raise it to 6?

Nobody should develop a hate for a man's course without playing it.

Cartpath's only hurt the course if you choose to let it.  Sure, they look funny, but if they do not interfere with play then even if they run across the fairway, whats the biff?

It took me about five minutes to dig those up.  They are from 3 of the 5 courses that Hills has done in California and the last three Hills courses that I have played.

Jordan,

How do you know that the carts paths don't interfere with play?  Have you played any of these holes?  How would a cart path that runs across a par 5 not interfere with play?

OK then.

Do they interfere with play?

Quote from: David Kelly on April 25, 2006, 03:53:32 PM

Jordan,

How do you know that the carts paths don't interfere with play?  Have you played any of these holes?  How would a cart path that runs across a par 5 not interfere with play?

OK then.
Do they interfere with play?

Look at holes 6 and 17 at Black Gold and 11 at Half Moon Bay.  The cart path runs through the fairway on each just a few yards from a bunker.  Hills obviously thought that there was a strategic purpose to putting a bunker in those sports and had the idea that golfers could hit into them.

Gentleman,

There is a theory among course operators that cart paths SHOULD cross fairways beyond the landing area, as it makes them more accessible and tends to speed play.
 
Art may or may not have laid those out, but whoever did simply gave the management company what they wanted.

It is possible to hide these from the play line of view with a small ridge.  Granted, you see them from the green looking back in most cases.  That might not be evident from the yardage books.

The downside to that theory, even if they are made invisible is that a path out of play when built might be very much in play a few years later.

The downside to that theory, even if they are made invisible is that a path out of play when built might be very much in play a few years later.

Jeff,

When is any cross-fairway path out of play for all?  Just because something crosses the fairway at 350 off the tee, doesn't mean it's not in play.  For a big chunk of high-handicappers, it's very much in play on their 2nd or 3rd or whatever shots.  Or possibly a low-capper chipping out from a wayward drive.

You guys must absolutely hate #1 and #18 at The Old Course.

 

Of the courses pictured I've only played HMB-Ocean, and I'm hear to tell you it's a damn good golf course... and on the holes pictured, I never really noticed the cart paths at all until looking them in these pics from the course guide.  They are where they are, you deal with them.  In a perfect world they don't exist... I'm just not sure - having played the course - how else they could have been done.

That being said, the evidence does show Mr. Hills has a predilection to cross fairways with paths.  

TH

Eureka!!!!

The solution to the cart path aesthetic!!!

Send the cart paths dead down the middle of each and every fairway.  The solution has been right in front of us all of these years!!!

The benefits:

1)  Fairway centered cart paths will reward the straight hitter with extra distance.  A new type of target golf is born!  "Get on the path" will replace "Get in the bunker" on the PGA TOUR.

2)  Cuts down on the back and forth across the fairway walking on cart path only courses.

3)  Ball sales increase with scuffed balls being taken out of play!

4)  Ties in all the drainage/run-off to the middle.  No need for side containment mounding!  Rees Jones VW Bug moundings become quaint afterthoughts!!!  Just grade at 2 higher on the sides of the fairway to the middle!!!  All of the run-off is recycled by tying the drainage to collection ponds and pumps!!!  Even easier, just repump the run-off from that central fairway cartpath to that hole's sprinkler system - a virtual fountain of water.   Less Pesti/Fungi/Herbicide usage due to the reapplication.

5)  Luck of the bounce is reintroduced to the delight of the "Ground Gamers!!!"

6)  Width of cart paths will become status symbols of clubs:  "Bushwood employs a double wide cart path so that we don't disturb the pristine turf on the sides of the paths"

7)  Par 4's and 5's become drivable with the proper design.  What you used to call interesting use of fairway topography will be replaced by "The Funnel Channel"  Cart Path design...

It is the future!!!

JWK

ARE WE ONTO SOMETHING HERE!?!

Robert -

Agreed. Fazio is very good at hiding them. I think it is a reason so many people are attracted to his courses.

He did a redo at my home course in ATL several years ago. He spent an extraordinary amout of time during his visits relocating cart paths and maintenance roads. At the time it seemed crazy. Now I see what he was up to. He understood that hiding that stuff matters to the way a course is perceived. I didn't pick up on its signifcance at the time.

Bob

Any thoughts as to WHY he constantly does this?

There has to be a good reason....

Hasn't there?

TH