[David Kelly]

I present a short medley of Art Hills cart paths for your enjoyment.

From Cross Creek Golf Club in Temecula, CA

Hole 5


Hole 6


Hole 9


Hole 14


Hole 15


From Black Gold Golf Club in Yorba Linda, CA

Hole 5


Hole 6


Hole 17


Hole 18


From Half Moon Bay Golf Links in Half Moon Bay, CA. The Ocean Course.

Hole 6


Hole 11


Hole 13

[Kevin_Reilly]

It was my understanding that architects often do not take responsibility for cart path layout, because of liability concerns.  Is that the case?

[Ryan Farrow]

Is this a signature cart path style we are looking at? I hope there is a reason he is not sending the cart paths down the side of the rough instead of cutting across. Looks like you spent a lot of time digging up and presenting these pictures. You have beef or just intrigued?

[Doug Sobieski]

That's some good investigaive work, David! Unbelievable that a single course could have 5 driving holes with a cart path crossing them! That's a must see.

We've got a 5 on the board, can anybody raise it to 6?

[Tim Pitner]

David,

Thanks, I really enjoyed that.  I know some architects don't have much to do with routing the cart paths, but it looks like Hills does because there are clear patterns across his courses.  The watchwords seem to be "obstruct as much as possible."  I'm beginning to develop a real sense of distaste for this man's work.

[Jordan Wall]

Nobody should develop a hate for a man's course without playing it.

Cartpath's only hurt the course if you choose to let it.  Sure, they look funny, but if they do not interfere with play then even if they run across the fairway, whats the biff?

[Ryan Crago]

is it not difficult to evaluate a cart path routing/design in plan view? ie/ without understanding topography, and more specifically, the context of the rest of the property and the course routing?? not to mention the programmatic elements of the course itself??

devil's advocate here.

[David Kelly]

It took me about five minutes to dig those up.  They are from 3 of the 5 courses that Hills has done in California and the last three Hills courses that I have played.

[David Kelly]

Jordan,

How do you know that the carts paths don't interfere with play?  Have you played any of these holes?  How would a cart path that runs across a par 5 not interfere with play?

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan,

How do you know that the carts paths don't interfere with play?  Have you played any of these holes?  How would a cart path that runs across a par 5 not interfere with play?

OK then.

Do they interfere with play?

[BCrosby]

This is Exhibit A for the notion that the next breakthrough in gca will be finding better, more imaginative  ways to build and integrate cart paths.

They are the single biggest feature on a golf course. And no one knows what to do with them. The material they are made from and how they are placed haven't changed in 40 years. Surely someone has some new ideas.

(I'm not picking on Hills. His are not much worse than anyone else's.)

Bob

[David Kelly]

Jordan,

How do you know that the carts paths don't interfere with play?  Have you played any of these holes?  How would a cart path that runs across a par 5 not interfere with play?

OK then.
Do they interfere with play?

Look at holes 6 and 17 at Black Gold and 11 at Half Moon Bay.  The cart path runs through the fairway on each just a few yards from a bunker.  Hills obviously thought that there was a strategic purpose to putting a bunker in those sports and had the idea that golfers could hit into them.

[Tim Pitner]

Nobody should develop a hate for a man's course without playing it.

Cartpath's only hurt the course if you choose to let it.  Sure, they look funny, but if they do not interfere with play then even if they run across the fairway, whats the biff?

Jordan,

I said I was developing a "distaste", not "hate," for Mr. Hills' work--big difference.  I don't truly hate many things in life.  One thing I do hate though are cartpaths.  I despise all cartpaths.  The only reason I don't advocate banning all carts and cartpaths is out of concern for the interests of the elderly and infirm.  So, a hideously conspicuous cartpath draws particular criticism from me.  It's a tremendous eyesore.  Concrete should not be the most prominent feature on a golf hole, and if the architect is responsible for that, he should be called out for it (in a reasonably respectful manner, of course).

[Jeff_Brauer]

Gentleman,

There is a theory among course operators that cart paths SHOULD cross fairways beyond the landing area, as it makes them more accessible and tends to speed play.
 
Art may or may not have laid those out, but whoever did simply gave the management company what they wanted.

It is possible to hide these from the play line of view with a small ridge.  Granted, you see them from the green looking back in most cases.  That might not be evident from the yardage books.

The downside to that theory, even if they are made invisible is that a path out of play when built might be very much in play a few years later.

[Robert Thompson]

This is Exhibit A for the notion that the next breakthrough in gca will be finding better, more imaginative  ways to build and integrate cart paths.

You know who is really good at hiding cart paths? Tom Fazio. In Canada, Tom McBroom is pretty good at it as well.

And actually I thought most architects had a pretty big handle in cart path placements, especially since they often factor into grading plans.

[Scott_Burroughs]

The downside to that theory, even if they are made invisible is that a path out of play when built might be very much in play a few years later.

Jeff,

When is any cross-fairway path out of play for all?  Just because something crosses the fairway at 350 off the tee, doesn't mean it's not in play.  For a big chunk of high-handicappers, it's very much in play on their 2nd or 3rd or whatever shots.  Or possibly a low-capper chipping out from a wayward drive.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Scott,

Yes, I agree. However, fewer folks complain about a path in play those ways vs. having it affect a "perfect" 300 yard plus drive......on the other hand, maybe not.

[Tom Huckaby]

You guys must absolutely hate #1 and #18 at The Old Course.

 

Of the courses pictured I've only played HMB-Ocean, and I'm hear to tell you it's a damn good golf course... and on the holes pictured, I never really noticed the cart paths at all until looking them in these pics from the course guide.  They are where they are, you deal with them.  In a perfect world they don't exist... I'm just not sure - having played the course - how else they could have been done.

That being said, the evidence does show Mr. Hills has a predilection to cross fairways with paths.  

TH

[ed_getka]

David,
   That is priceless collection.

Jeff,
   Thanks for pointing out why they may be crossing the course. It makes sense at least even if it is an eyesore. At least it has a practical purpose.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Eureka!!!!

The solution to the cart path aesthetic!!!

Send the cart paths dead down the middle of each and every fairway.  The solution has been right in front of us all of these years!!!

The benefits:

1)  Fairway centered cart paths will reward the straight hitter with extra distance.  A new type of target golf is born!  "Get on the path" will replace "Get in the bunker" on the PGA TOUR.

2)  Cuts down on the back and forth across the fairway walking on cart path only courses.

3)  Ball sales increase with scuffed balls being taken out of play!

4)  Ties in all the drainage/run-off to the middle.  No need for side containment mounding!  Rees Jones VW Bug moundings become quaint afterthoughts!!!  Just grade at 2 higher on the sides of the fairway to the middle!!!  All of the run-off is recycled by tying the drainage to collection ponds and pumps!!!  Even easier, just repump the run-off from that central fairway cartpath to that hole's sprinkler system - a virtual fountain of water.   Less Pesti/Fungi/Herbicide usage due to the reapplication.

5)  Luck of the bounce is reintroduced to the delight of the "Ground Gamers!!!"

6)  Width of cart paths will become status symbols of clubs:  "Bushwood employs a double wide cart path so that we don't disturb the pristine turf on the sides of the paths"

7)  Par 4's and 5's become drivable with the proper design.  What you used to call interesting use of fairway topography will be replaced by "The Funnel Channel"  Cart Path design...

It is the future!!!

JWK

ARE WE ONTO SOMETHING HERE!?!

[Joe Hancock]

Jeff,

That point is also valid only if the course is a "path-only" endeavor.

Joe

[BCrosby]

Robert -

Agreed. Fazio is very good at hiding them. I think it is a reason so many people are attracted to his courses.

He did a redo at my home course in ATL several years ago. He spent an extraordinary amout of time during his visits relocating cart paths and maintenance roads. At the time it seemed crazy. Now I see what he was up to. He understood that hiding that stuff matters to the way a course is perceived. I didn't pick up on its signifcance at the time.

Bob

[David Kelly]

Late additions.

Heritage Highlands, Marana, AZ.

Hole 1


Hole 5


Hole 10


Hole 13


Blue Mash Golf Course, Laytonsville, MD.

Hole 3


Hole 5


Gaillardia Golf and Country Club, Oklahoma City, OK.

Hole 1


Hole 7


Hole 16


Hole 18

[Tom Huckaby]

Any thoughts as to WHY he constantly does this?

There has to be a good reason....

Hasn't there?

TH

[Evan_Green]

Hole 13

David - I havent played the above hole, but given the undulations of the above picture, to me it looks like this was the best way to run the cartpath. I'm just curious how you would have run the cartpath differently on this hole?

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