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Sean_A

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Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy) New
« on: April 24, 2006, 01:01:59 PM »
Kaput





« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 01:52:50 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 03:41:23 PM »
Good for you, Sean!  I met up with Tom this evening and he was purring about it.  If only it weren't in the Midlands!

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2006, 02:07:09 AM »
Sean,
Thanks so much. This is the first time I ever really got to see some in-depth stuff of Beau Desert. Hard to believe more don't want to comment on it!

Mark_F

Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2006, 03:50:39 AM »
Sean,

Beau Desert has to be the ultimate 'hidden gem' in the UK?

A fantastic and beautiful course in a part of the country not renowned for great golf.  

Perhaps its lack of recognition is the par threes?  Aside from the 7th, I'm struggling to remember what the rest of them were like.

Also, whilst it is on some spectacular land in parts, there are some very subtle elements to a number of holes which tend to make you think great land, holes okay but nothing more?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2006, 04:43:37 AM »
Mark

I would probably agree with your conclusion on the par 3s.  None are outstanding though all have more about them than is supposed after a few looks.  The 7th is the best, but I wish that bloody tree in the middle of the valley would be ripped out.  

I would strongly disagree with your conclusion that the course is just ok.  I think Beau Desert borders on being a great course and can hold its own with many of the heathland tracks of Berks. and Surrey.  There is definitely an element of sameness about many holes:  

1. Holes subtly uphill and against the wind.
2. Obscured targets because of green complexes and cross bunkers etc.
3. Difficult to read greens because of topography and subsidence.
4. Greens raised which make chipping difficult.
5. Most holes through tree lined corridors.
6. Nob to nob holes.
7. Downhill drives and uphill approaches.
8. Mini false front greens or gathering spots below a ridge.

However, the above qualities also mean the player can hit a wide variety of shots and must think his way round.  I have never seen Beau overpowered.  From the whites the course is 6300 yards, yet there are six holes over 400 yards long.  However, several of the shorter par 4s play longer than longer par 4s.  Neither par 5 is overly long.  In fact, the 18th is only 480 yards, but it is still very difficult to hit this green in two even though it is severely downhill!  There are also three par 4s which are driveable, but all carry significant risks in going for it.  Two of these shorties have tricky approaches.  In short, the course is quite a sporty little track, but tough without being brutal for the handicap player.

I have a much better understanding of Beau now after several plays and I greatly admire the course.  All the trees have bothered me to some degree, but they were originally grown to hide the mining works which surrounded Cannock Chase.  Beau sits at over 700 feet (the elevation change on the course is close to 150 feet, I think) and the land underneath was extensively mined.  Hence the subsidence which created "unruly" greens.  Hawtree was brought in to tame some greens in the mid-seventies.  The club has never actually completed much of its plans to lift the subsided areas of the course and I doubt it will because subsidence can continue for many years to come.  

I also think the routing is superb.  If one were to walk a line from the 2nd green to the the 11th green, a walk of maybe 350 yards, one will walk through a part of eight separate holes!  Yet the course does not have anything like a side by side routing nor is there any feeling of the holes being squeezed into an insufficient area.  Another very interesting point is that the club feels the indigenous soil is so acidic and natural grasses so fine (Tommy commented on how good the greens looked - no poa mixed in) that at regular intervals liming has to be done to just to keep grass cover.    

All in all I think Beau is well worth playing and my only criticisms would be the playing corridors are very tight in summer when the ball runs like a stabbed rat.  I am sure that in the old days the corridors were wider.  Trees nearly always have a way of getting out of control.  Secondly, the bunkering is very uneven.  Some bunkers are great and others (especially those protecting the putting green immediately left of 18 green) are dire.  This is more an aesthetics criticism as play wouldn't be effected much.  

The club has just finished a little dormy house which I think is a good idea as the area is not particularly attractive anyway.  This makes it quite convenient for the traveler to show up late afternoon, get a game and dinner and hit the hay.  The rates are reasonable, £75 golf, b&b on Mon-Fri and £85 on the weekends.

Ciao

Sean
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 05:58:12 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_F

Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2006, 10:04:06 PM »
Sean,

Sorry, you misunderstood me.

Beau Desert IS a great course.

I simply meant that the land is fantastic, but some of the holes are quite subtle, leading people to think that the design isn't up to the land.

To me, even though it stands pretty much in isolation, it is a must play - especially with a tasty little dormy house.  

Nice bargain those rates!

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2006, 03:32:38 AM »
I also think Beau Desert is a GREAT name for a golf course...

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2006, 12:01:50 PM »
Thanks for the pics Sean..it takes me back to many county matches I have played there over the years.
I agree the par 3's lack panache but still all,good solid , challenging holes.
I love the course and that style of heathland golf...to me it rivals the links as Britains greatest golf asset...although I do not expect that much support on this site with that view.

A trip back home to play
Ganton
Woodhall Spa
Beau Desert
Blackmoor
Berkshire
Broadstone
Little Aston
Walton Heath
Sunningdale

That would rival any trip!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2006, 12:32:25 PM »
Sean, please remind me how far it is from Hoylake to Beau Desert.  Also Beau Desert to Manchester Airport.

Thanks.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2006, 02:31:00 PM »
Leave yourself two hours fom Manchester - the traffic is simply too unpredictable - and 2 1/2 from Hoylake.  You might do it in much less - equally you might pick up a speeding ticket - Staffordshire is littered with speed cameras and all the road works on the M60 have average-speed cameras which you simply cannot cheat.

I'm glad you are coming to a conclusion about BD that I came to in the 1960s.  Tom has now played 4 more courses up here in Cheshire and I think he'll be posting when he gets home - there may even be a Williamsen Scale to complement Tom Doak's.  He's gone to bed early tonight - these are rather hillier courses!

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2006, 09:46:08 PM »
One of the interesting features of Beau Desert is how most of the greens have a kind of trench around the back portion: where the greens have been pushed up sharply from fairway level.  Unique in my experience in the UK and a bit like Macdonald and Co.  (The photos looking back on 5, 7 and 15 give you an idea)

It is an excellent course.  The only dullish holes that I recall are 8 and 11.

The 7th plays as a kind of redan.  Angled green that falls diagonally away from middle to back left.

I remember that mound on the 5th creating quite a long debate here on GCA about 6 years ago.  Started by Pat Mucci.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2006, 11:16:19 PM »
Okay --------- who among the Hoylake Buda Cuppers is up for a round at Beau Desert on the Friday following?  David my son and I are there.  Great photos Sean.  How do we book the dormie house for the prior night?  I think we will play Delamere Forest on Thursday, drive to Beau Desert to overnight at the dormie house, then on to Manchester Airport for an overnight before flight home on Saturday.

Four ball a.m. followed by foursomes afternoon?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2006, 02:59:05 AM »
Paul

You are right there are loads of holes with trench-like features around the back and sometimes swinging up the sides.  In effect they are catchment areas (I think originally to stop balls from going into heavy rough) which make chipping quite interesting.  The club should make an effort to keep these areas cut close to fairway height.  It is interesting that Fowler made no attempt to grade the lines to make them appear more natural.

Looking at some photos fellas post of Macdonald and Banks courses reminds me a bit of these trenches.  These guys often put sand at the base of these sharp falloffs.  I much prefer the Fowler approach of allowing options from these areas.  

I would disagree that #s 9 & 11 are dullish.  I think both holes break up stretches of very good holes and offer a bit of variety.  Neither hole is easy.  In fact, I hit driver (not a bad hit) and 3 wood the other day and it wasn't terribly windy.  Beau is a totally different course now than in the summer.  It plays much longer, but not necessarilty easier.

#9 requires a a hard draw from the tee medal tee or layup.  I always feel that laying up here is difficult to do because I know the hole rises steadily uphill and I want to bang that drive as far as I can to try and get an 8 iron or so into the green.  

#11 is a good hole because of the approach.  The palyer can really use the slope of the green to their advantage, but to do so means they have to carry one of the fronting bunkers.  You can try to run the ball up, but it is very tight.  Also, playing long to avoid the traps usually means the payer must putt back down a fairly steep green which breaks much more than can be read-one just knows from playing the course.

Bill

I am probably up for either morning or am (not both).  However, if you have a few more visitors that are interested and there aren't enough people to make up two tee times the visitors can have right of way.

www.bdgc.co.uk
01543 422 626

I can make arrangements if you like.  Also, the next time I visit Beau (likely in July) I will try to check out the dormy house.

PS  Anybody playing Beau Desert should consider Enville.  The Highgate course there is a lovely track.  Very heathery with f&f conditions.  There is another 18 course called the Lodge which has many good holes as well.  If a composite 18 could be conjured up Enville would surely be on everybody's must play list.  As it is the Highgate may be the second best course in greater Brum.

Ciao

Sean
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 03:34:33 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2006, 11:52:25 AM »
Sean, I found the website for BD and emailed the secretary.  He says it costs 75 pounds for a night in the dormie house and a round of golf.  Good deal!  Right now I am thinking of playing Delamere Forest on the Thursday after Buda Cup ends and then driving after golf to Beau Desert, spend the night and play there Friday.  I would love to see some of the participants make this Friday round, should be good fun.

I asked the secretary, Mr Bradbury, to let me know how many bedrooms there are in the dormie house, and also what nearby lodging is available.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 11:57:25 AM by Bill_McBride »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2006, 08:12:05 PM »
I also think Beau Desert is a GREAT name for a golf course...

Tommy

I have been checking out the history of the name Beau Desert.  Apparently, the term is Norman french meaning beautiful and lonely place.  

Beaudesert first appears in a title during the Dissolution of the Monasteries.  The bishops of Leiechfield and Coventry owned a large estate at Connock Chase which was used for hunting.  Henry VIII disolved the monastery and Walter Paget was eventually created Baron de Beaudesert (Peerage of England) in 1553.  

The Earl of Uxbridge (Peerage of Great Britain) title came to the Pagets in 1714, but was made extinct in 1769.  The 2nd Earl of Uxbridge (from the second creation of the Earldom in 1784), a hero at the Battle of Waterloo, was made Marquess of Anglesey (Peerage of the United Kingdom) in 1815.  Thereby making his other titles (including an Irish Baronet title) subsidiary.  

The 6th Marquess of Anglesey completed the breakup of the Beaudesert estate (due to financial difficulties) in 1936.  I believe the golf club was bought at auction a few years earlier.  All told, some 24 family estates were sold or given up!  However, the Paget family line continues today.  Charles Alexander Vaughn Paget, Earl of Uxbridge, is the heir apperent to become the 8th Marquess of Anglesey.  His father, George Charles still lives in apartments at Plas Newydd in Anglesey.  In 1976 the house and 169 acres was given to the National Trust.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2006, 01:59:47 PM »
Sean, now the name makes perfect sense.  Contemplative monks looked for secluded and "lonely places."  I think I would be happy to build a hermitage on the property, as long as I could keep my golf clubs handy.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2006, 01:18:52 AM »
Gentlemen, How does Beau Desert compare to the other very good to great courses central England like Woodhall Spa and Ganton? I am coming up the middle in mid June and curiousity has me as to the spell this course casts upon you guys.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2006, 03:46:57 AM »
I wouldn't mind being celebate at Beau Desert--well at least for a couple of days! ;)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2006, 04:02:53 AM »
Tiger

I think Beau Desert stands up very well against the famous Surrey/Berkshire heathland courses and is probably on the borderline of being a great course.  Perhaps if the par 3s were better Beau could stake a claim as a truly great course.  Beau Desert certainly isn't in the class of Ganton or Woodhall which may be the best two inland courses in the UK.  

If you are looking for a 36 hole day you could do a lot worse than playing Enville Highgate (very close to Whittington Heath which I am told is very good as well) with Beau.  This course is nearly as good as Beau and it shares with Beau a wonderfully secluded spot.

Notts, which isn't too far off the M1 and on the way to Alwoodley and Ganton is a great course.  I think it could well be the 3rd best inland course in the UK.  The Brits are very high on the course (as well they should be), but Notts seems to fly under the radar of Americans.  

Of course you must remember that I am but a provincial lad.  Many of those south of Watford Gap would scoff at my assertions.  In any case, if you are looking for a game at Beau, give me a shout.  I always enjoy going round Beau.

Ciao

Sean
« Last Edit: May 07, 2006, 04:35:41 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2006, 03:43:31 PM »
Thanks Sean, I will let you know the final plans for the trip and see if we can play a round together.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2006, 10:56:54 PM »
El Tigre, you should also try to squeeze in Alwoodley in Leeds, a wonderful day on a historic course.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2006, 11:16:10 PM »
Bill, I am with you on that one. I have Ganton and Woodhall Spa as must plays with Brancaster right with them and that soaks up the 3 days Wendy and I have between St. Andrews/Fife and London. I mean there are only about 10 or so out of sight great courses around London as well. What is a man to do? I say go back in October.

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2006, 10:56:15 AM »
Tiger

I think Beau Desert stands up very well against the famous Surrey/Berkshire heathland courses and is probably on the borderline of being a great course.  Perhaps if the par 3s were better Beau could stake a claim as a truly great course.  Beau Desert certainly isn't in the class of Ganton or Woodhall which may be the best two inland courses in the UK.  

If you are looking for a 36 hole day you could do a lot worse than playing Enville Highgate (very close to Whittington Heath which I am told is very good as well) with Beau.  This course is nearly as good as Beau and it shares with Beau a wonderfully secluded spot.

Notts, which isn't too far off the M1 and on the way to Alwoodley and Ganton is a great course.  I think it could well be the 3rd best inland course in the UK.  The Brits are very high on the course (as well they should be), but Notts seems to fly under the radar of Americans.  

Of course you must remember that I am but a provincial lad.  Many of those south of Watford Gap would scoff at my assertions.  In any case, if you are looking for a game at Beau, give me a shout.  I always enjoy going round Beau.

Ciao

Sean

Sean

I'd agree with your assessment of Ganton, Woodhall Spa & Notts being contenders as the top three inland courses in the UK.  I'd also add Alwoodley to that mix.

I must admit that I haven't played any of the classic southern heathland courses.  Like you I'm a provincial lad and, as a Yorkshireman to boot, I have neither the necessary funds nor the requisite home counties accent to be able to play the likes of Sunningdale etc  ;)
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Brent Hutto

Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2006, 11:06:06 AM »
I must admit that I haven't played any of the classic southern heathland courses.  Like you I'm a provincial lad and, as a Yorkshireman to boot, I have neither the necessary funds nor the requisite home counties accent to be able to play the likes of Sunningdale etc  ;)

Is there any signature word or phrasing that would enable an outsider to detect a "home counties" accent from any other "English" one? I'd like to know what to be on the listen for when I'm vacationing in Surrey and Kent.

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beau Desert For Naccers (yes, you Tommy)
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2006, 11:43:56 AM »
Brent

My comment was meant tongue in cheek (hence the  ;)).

In the north of England (where I live) it is a popular misconception that people in the south east of England, excluding cockneys, speak perfect Queen's English rather like BBC newsreaders of old!

The reverse of this is that southerners think civilisation stops at Watford Gap and that all northerners live in terrace houses, wear flat caps and breed whippets!!
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc