2006 North Carolina’s Top 40 Courses

« **on:** April 11, 2006, 12:11:15 AM »

1. Pinehurst No. 2 5,554 points

2. Old North State

3. Pine Needles

4. Grandfather

5. Charlotte CC 4,372 points

6. CCNC Dogwood

7. Elk River

8. Quail Hollow

9. Linville GC

10. Forest Creek

11. Pinehurst No. 4, Pinehurst 3,378 points

12. Biltmore Forest CC, Asheville 3,290

13. Pinehurst No. 8, Pinehurst 3,104

14. National GC, Pinehurst 2,775

15. CCNC (Cardinal), Pinehurst 2,534

16. River Landing, Wallace 2,392

17. Rock Barn (Jones), Conover 2,218

18. Old Town, Winston-Salem 2,203

19. Club at Longview, Weddington 2,182

20. Eagle Point, Wilmington 2,078

21. Wade Hampton, Cashiers 2,012

22. Mid South Club, Pinehurst 1,965

23. Duke University, Durham 1,856

24. Mid Pines, Southern Pines 1,837

25. Linville Ridge, Linville 1,659

26. Forest Creek GC (North), Pinehurst 1,614

27. UNC Finley GC, Chapel Hill 1,544

28. Tiger’s Eye, Sunset Beach 1,406

29. Raleigh CC, Raleigh 1,222

30. Tanglewood (Champ.), Clemmons 1,375

31. Pinehurst No. 7, Pinehurst 1,323

32. Grove Park Inn GC, Asheville 1,288

33. Myers Park CC, Charlotte 1,246

34. Grandover (East), Greensboro 1,178

35. Treyburn, Durham 1,162

36. Old Chatham, Durham 1,053

37. Governors Club, Chapel Hill 984

38. Sedgefield CC, Greensboro 962

39. Anderson Creek, Spring Lake 943

40. Brier Creek CC, Raleigh 909

« **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2006, 12:29:38 AM »

No Tot Hill Farm?

No Tobacco Road?

Both are better than Duke, I think, and loads better than Tiger's Eye. I also don't see why they think Tiger's Eye is better than Tanglewood. Furthermore, I think Governor's Club is better than Tiger's Eye and Tanglewood.

What were the criteria for these ratings?

« **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2006, 07:17:38 AM »

Tim, I don't think you really want to know what those "points" mean. Whatever they are, Old North State sure seems to have an awful lot of them.

« **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2006, 08:03:16 AM »

Dunlop:

I am surprised that you would take the time to post this list. I think you are aware of just how flawed the North Carolina Magazine process is.

The points awarded to a course by that magazine is a total of those assigned by all the raters who rated the course. A course's ranking depends largely on the volume of raters who have played it. That's why several courses host rater outings (some have hosted several). By driving up the number of raters who see a course, they automatically drive up their point total. Courses that aren't seen by many raters will obviously get a low point total.

Many of the magazine raters have never set foot on courses like Wade Hampton, Old Town, and Forest Creek whereas Old North State hosts one or two rater outings each year. Then there is Diamond Creek, which just may be the best course west of Pinehurst. I wonder how many raters (of any magazine) have played it. My guess is that it will be a cold day in Miami when Wayne Huizenga hosts a rater outing there, so they my never crack the top 50 on the NC Magazine list.

I see the NC Magazine rankings as a shameless excuse to entice courses to host outings for its panel in order to drive up their volume of votes and therefore their ranking. I know many of their panelist, and like me, lots of them are getting older. I speculate that some of them are voting based on fond memories and (except for the outings) are not getting around to see newer and recently restored courses. Until they change their process to base rankings on the average of ratings rather than total volume, their rankings do not deserve to be read or discusssed.

« **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2006, 08:05:05 AM »

I'm just guessing, but these look like the North Carolina Magazine Golf Rankings. The reason they seem strange is that the rankings are based at least partly on the members of the panel being able to access a golf course, therefore a course like Wade Hampton will not make the top 10 because most of the panel will not get to see it. There are 130 people on the panel.

« **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:10:15 AM »

Yes, the North Carolina system is based on access. If 130 panelists all give "Course X" and a horrible score of 1 point on a scale from 1 - 10, then "Course X" tallies 130 points. Yet, only 10 panelists gain access to "Course Y" and all give it an excellent score of 10 points, then "Course Y" accumulates only 100 points. Thus, "Course X", which everyone agrees is a piece-of-shit golf course, will be ranked higher than "Course Y".

Jim, Corey, and Brad -- It creates a bunch of chatter everywhere I go. Every newspaper and magazine in NC publishes these rankings, and most people think it's the "real deal". Most don't know better though. Those that do, don't even care nowadays. As BK wrote several months back in GW, the private clubs are going through a "Private Predicament" when it comes to keeping and recruiting members. Knowing the process is flawed, the most exclusive clubs around the state are all hosting raters outings and parties. As such, all clubs are forced to "play the game" or risk losing potential members to the cross-town club which is ranked higher or the mountain resort club that has the better golf course.

« **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:41:19 AM »

Quote from: Tim Gavrich on April 11, 2006, 12:29:38 AM

No Tot Hill Farm?

No Tobacco Road?

Both are better than Duke, I think, and loads better than Tiger's Eye. I also don't see why they think Tiger's Eye is better than Tanglewood. Furthermore, I think Governor's Club is better than Tiger's Eye and Tanglewood.

What were the criteria for these ratings?

Tim, it sounds like you don't like Tigers Eye.

I find it interesting that Cape Fear isn't listed and neither is either of the Landfall courses.

« **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2006, 11:19:55 AM »

For those that have an opinion, what do you believe to be the Top 10 in NC? Also, what are 5 underappreciated/less known courses that are great? I agree that the business list is fundamentally flawed. My would go something like:

top 10
1. No. 2
2. Linville
3. Grandfather
4. Old Town
5. Pine Needles
6. Charlotte
7. Biltmore Forest
8. Quail Hollow
9. Forest Creek (N)
10. Myers Park

I haven't played Wade hampon
, diamond creek, or either of the CCNC courses.

As far as 5 fun others:
1. Hope Valley
2. Roaring Gap
3. Carolina Golf Club (Charlotte)
4. Boone Golf Club
5. New Grove Park Inn

« **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2006, 12:04:01 PM »

Quote from: Dunlop_White on April 11, 2006, 10:10:15 AM

Yes, the North Carolina system is based on access. If 130 panelists all give "Course X" and a horrible score of 1 point on a scale from 1 - 10, then "Course X" tallies 130 points. Yet, only 10 panelists gain access to "Course Y" and all give it an excellent score of 10 points, then "Course Y" accumulates only 100 points. Thus, "Course X", which everyone agrees is a piece-of-shit golf course, will be ranked higher than "Course Y".

Jim, Corey, and Brad -- It creates a bunch of chatter everywhere I go. Every newspaper and magazine in NC publishes these rankings, and most people think it's the "real deal". Most don't know better though. Those that do, don't even care nowadays. As BK wrote several months back in GW, the private clubs are going through a "Private Predicament" when it comes to keeping and recruiting members. Knowing the process is flawed, the most exclusive clubs around the state are all hosting raters outings and parties. As such, all clubs are forced to "play the game" or risk losing potential members to the cross-town club which is ranked higher or the mountain resort club that has the better golf course.

This actually sounds like one of the worst ranking lists I've ever heard of. More points because more have seen it? That's ridiculous. One of the rating lists I participate in averages all the rater's opinions and requires a minimum number of raters play the course in question. But giving more points just because more people got access? That's just too screwy for words.

« **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2006, 12:12:31 PM »

Dunlop,
I think Old Town should be top 5 on anyones' list for NC...
Brock,
Cape Fear would be rated higher if you were still here.

Under construction/restoration now...be surprised if it doesn't go very high on any list for NC when finished.

« **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2006, 04:09:49 PM »

There is no way that Rock Barn should be on that list. Its a desgrace that it is ranked ahead of Old Towne. Roaring Gap has a great fun aspect to it. The most underrated course in North Carolina is Mimosa Hills with some of the best bunkering I"ve ever seen. Biltmore Forest is a personal favorite and Diamond Creek in my opinion isn't worth playing after the first time.

Lawrence

Greensboro Country Club in town course was very interesting also for a short course also.

« **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2006, 04:13:40 PM »

Is there nothing east of 95, minus the Wilmington area worth playing? If not, why is this?

« **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2006, 04:22:29 PM »

Any list of NC courses that fails to include Tobacco Road and Tot Hill Farm can't possibly be credible.

« **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2006, 10:42:48 PM »

Tons of good courses in NC, few great ones!

John Shimp -- I like your assessment very much. A nice Top 10 with some nice sleepers!

Walker's right, look out for Cape Fear which is re-opening this summer.

And I'm also surprised that Tobacco Road isn't ranked any higher. Not only do I like the course, but their golf pro is a panelist.

« **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2006, 12:28:51 PM »

...where's the smilie for shaking my head.

This list looks like the voting for prom queen.

« **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2006, 10:23:38 PM »

Well being from Michigan and playing very little in North Carolina I can pretty reasonably say that no right minded person could ever tell me that Duke University is better than Tanglewood Park (Championship). That is just ludicrous. Furthermore, Tobacco Road is way better than Duke and Mid Pines. The list looks like it was done by people who don't know much about golf and care more about who designed a course.

« **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2006, 10:29:10 PM »

Being an Australian that has only played 2 courses on that list (Pinehurst 2 & Wade Hampton), why is Wade Hampton so low, when it has made World Top 100 lists ? Which ranking is closer to the mark ?

« **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2006, 10:43:09 PM »

I'm appalled that Tobacco Road did not crack the top 5.

I think Tobacco Road is Number 1 in the state. Yes, even above No 2., but that's just my $.02.

« **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2006, 11:00:02 PM »

Oak Hollow in High Point, NC, needs to be on the list somewhere. It is probably one of five favorite courses of all time, certainly my favorite Dye Design. Retro Dye at its best.

« **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2006, 11:08:50 PM »

This list is not to be taken seriously.

News:

Dunlop_White

Tim Gavrich

Brad Klein

jim_lewis

Cory Lewis

Dunlop_White

Brock Peyer

John Shimp

Robert Thompson

Walker_Taylor

Lawrence Largent

Jason Tetterton

cary lichtenstein

Dunlop_White

Brian_Marion

Brian Cenci

Andrew Summerell

Jay Flemma

JNC Lyon

A.G._Crockett