Favorite Augusta greens

« **on:** March 14, 2006, 07:29:04 AM »

Greens are the great defense for Augusta (used to be before rough, length, etc). As a warm up to the Masters I though I would ask: what is your favorite strategic Augusta green and why? This is a cheap attempt for me to get good diagrams of the greens to use as I watch the tournament, also to further the discussion of great greens. Thanks.

« **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:52:48 AM »

Tim:

You aren't going to get any diagrams from me, but I'll tell you my favorites:

The 13th is my favorite. The angle of the tiers and the angle of the creek combine to make it really important to hug the inside corner of the dogleg off the tee.

The 6th and 14th are wonders of the world. The 16th is way more severe in person than I imagined ... the fact that more players miss in the water than miss to the right of the green is telling. And my favorite "sleeper" green is the 17th, which looks relatively tame in person yet causes a bunch of problems in the tournament.

« **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:56:32 AM »

I have never been there but I love everything about the 13th hole including the green.

« **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:14:16 AM »

I have always been intrigued by #8 green because of its angle, I saw it negatively impact many players, and simplicity including the lack of bunkers, and MacKenzie's very unnatural use of mounds as a design element, for which I don't fault him, I think the thought process by which he arrived at those as a design element is interesting.

Mike, those art classes are really starting to pay off, nice job!

« **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:45:10 AM »

« **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:52:39 AM »

Tom Doak:

Do you know the history of the 13th green?

I know it's been rebuilt (and perhaps redesigned, slightly) on at least a few occasions. Who's actually responsible for the angle of the tiers?

In other words, were Dr. MacKenzie's original contours preserved during the rebuilds? Or is the brilliant angle of the tiers a result of subsequent tweaking?

Just curious.

« **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:01:33 AM »

how about #3? even though it's quite small, there are plenty of spots where a 2 putt is nearly impossible.

as for #16, i think it gets a little repetitive watching balls roll down that slope, whether toward the hole or away from it. anyone else?

« **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2006, 09:33:30 AM »

It is hard to pick favorites whent het're all so unique. but I'd have to go with 14, because of the mounding protecting the fromt right.

5 may be underappreciated today, since for many the once-required run up approach has been replaced with a mid to short iron pitch.

Also a big fan of 3 and 13 greens.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2006, 10:41:17 AM »

Quote from: Gary Daughters on March 14, 2006, 09:01:33 AM

how about #3? even though it's quite small, there are plenty of spots where a 2 putt is nearly impossible.

as for #16, i think it gets a little repetitive watching balls roll down that slope, whether toward the hole or away from it. anyone else?

I think this is a valid point about 16. With a right hole location everybody seems to end up with the same put. 35 feet with big left to right swing. Usually Thursday or Friday pin position. Doesn't differentiate at all between tee shots. Isn't this a weakness?

« **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2006, 11:12:12 AM »

14

I'll never forget Larry Mize making about a 25-footer there that literally had a 90 degree turn to it!

« **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2006, 11:15:34 AM »

14

Because it has lots of feeding areas (to and away) in play and no bunkers in the complex.

« **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2006, 11:19:38 AM »

I like #3, and watching recovery shots and putting. Spectators have a good vantage point standing on the right side.

The tenth green is also interesting to watch the approach shots. You can see everything from left greenside.

As mentioned on previous threads, Stan Byrdy's book on ANGC is well written and documents much of the changes to the greens and bunkering.

Byrdy's book mentions changes to the 13th green in " 1954 (contours on putting surface redirected and greenside bunker adjusted), 1975 (putting surface redesigned), and 1988 (left and greenside swales reduced). " Book has old photo of the 13th circa 1950s.

« **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2006, 11:23:58 AM »

Should have mentioned that Stan Byrdy's 2005 book is 'The Augusta National Golf Club'. Simple enough title and a wonderful golf book .........

« **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2006, 12:39:12 PM »

Quote from: Tim_Liddy1 on March 14, 2006, 07:29:04 AM

Greens are the great defense for Augusta (used to be before rough, length, etc). As a warm up to the Masters I though I would ask: what is your favorite strategic Augusta green and why? This is a cheap attempt for me to get good diagrams of the greens to use as I watch the tournament, also to further the discussion of great greens. Thanks.

Tim,

It's an interesting question, perhaps made more interesting when you consider that the greens were bermuda at inception until a while ago.

The increased pace of the greens has added other dimensions to the game, from drives, to approaches, recoveries and putts.

What's startling about the greens at ANGC is that it's difficult to find a flat putt of 10 feet or more on most greens.

What's really shocking is the tilt in some of the greens.

I always thought that the upper tiers on # 13 and # 16 were flat, but, they're not, they're sloped, and as such they present a far greater dilema to the golfer.

Different greens perform different tasks when challenging the golfer.

# 3 places a premium on hitting the green below the hole and extracts a severe penalty for those that don't.

# 5, # 6 and # 14 have extreme contours.

# 9 has three tiers, others have two tiers.

Some are angled and sloped, like # 2.

In summary, there's great diversity in their configuration, contouring and challenge.

I hope the weather co-operates as I really love watching the Masters when it's not wet, and I love watching it, even when it is wet.

« **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2006, 01:39:21 PM »

Tom,
Here is a caddie's book diagram of green #12.

« **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2006, 01:43:36 PM »

Quote from: Jeff_Mingay on March 14, 2006, 08:52:39 AM

Tom Doak:

Do you know the history of the 13th green?

I know it's been rebuilt (and perhaps redesigned, slightly) on at least a few occasions. Who's actually responsible for the angle of the tiers?

In other words, were Dr. MacKenzie's original contours preserved during the rebuilds? Or is the brilliant angle of the tiers a result of subsequent tweaking?

Just curious.

I do that JN placed the swale to the left of 13 green.
Myself#7 with a short iron...don't know about it with much mre...

« **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2006, 01:45:42 PM »

Bill V,

Here is #14 green. I have a few notes on it. I hope it is readable.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2006, 02:10:30 PM »

Oops, a typo, #12 green labeled above is actually green #13.

« **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2006, 02:17:44 PM »

Quote from: Paul T on March 14, 2006, 11:12:12 AM

14

I'll never forget Larry Mize making about a 25-footer there that literally had a 90 degree turn to it!

Paul -- the same year he won?

« **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2006, 02:37:18 PM »

Tom Doak beat me to it, but in person that green on #6 is something to behold...truly fascinating with it extreme internal contours. Nothing like it!

« **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2006, 03:12:01 PM »

I came back from Augusta National last year for the first time with deep admiration for #5 from tee to green, but especially the green. With that "nose" feature in front, your effective landing area is greatly diminished. I seem to recall Nicklaus saying something about deriving huge statisfaction from landing a shot exactly where he needed to at #5 -- was that a couple of years ago, when he made a 2 there?

« **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2006, 03:18:55 PM »

It's not my favorite, but #4 will be playing extraordinarily difficult with the additional length.

« **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2006, 03:48:19 PM »

I have several favorites at Augusta, but the 3rd green is one of the most treacherous, especially the left pin position.
The green demands a most precise approach and if not properly executed, the results are almost always a bogey. The players walk off the green wondering how they managed to bogey such a simple hole. It is fun to watch them play their shots to the right side of the green and try to two putt for par and get out of there. Interesting considering it is the shortest par 4 on the course.

« **Reply #23 on:** March 14, 2006, 04:09:49 PM »

The greens I most wanted to play when I was there -- and which I'd LOVE to have a few hours to chip to -- were 5, 6, 13 and 14.

So I guess those are my favorites.

« **Reply #24 on:** March 14, 2006, 04:43:32 PM »

It's the grain that makes many of Augusta's greens so difficult... let me explain... Amen corner drastically pulls the ball throughout the course. For instance, #10 green is much slower going downhill from back to front than it is going uphill from front to back -- toward Amen Corner. #14 green, moving downhill from left to right toward Amen corner, is among the fastest putts anywhere -- add the contours and you have one hell of a green!

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