Good straight hole?

« **on:** March 12, 2006, 05:44:44 PM »

I was struck by a an off hand comment that Johnny Miller made. It was to the effect that there really are no good straight holes, except maybe 18 at Oakmont.

As I thought about it for a few moments it occurred to me that good straight hole is a tricky thing to make interesting. Off the top of my head I thought of both 2 and 18 at Pine Valley. 18 at TOC is pretty exciting as well.
What candidates would you add?

« **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2006, 06:09:08 PM »

I don't think Miller was right. Here are some Flynn designs and one Flynn redesign that are quite good:

1st and 4th at The Country Club in Pepper Pike, OH
7th at Rolling Green Golf Club
7th at Pocantico Hills
5th and 16th at Shinnecock Hills
7th at Philadelphia Cricket Club
2, 10, C-1 and C-9 Huntingdon Valley
16th and 17th at Indian Creek
1st, 2nd and 3rd at Cherry Hills were from Flynn tees

« **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2006, 06:23:48 PM »

Wayne:

16 at Shinny is a good one. I'm not gonna give you #5 though as there is a slight bend to the right. (And don't give me that crap about playing from the right fairway because you still have to come in from the left

).

As far as others I'm familiar with:

#9 Southampton Golf Club
#14 Sand Hills (All World)
# 4 Southampton Golf Club
#9 Maidstone (All World)
#2 National Golf Links
#3 National Golf Links............

..................................................................................

.....and a thousand others.

The more you think about this the more one realizes Miller was wrong.

« **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2006, 06:29:07 PM »

Ouch. Yep, you got me on that one, Gene. My memory is getting as bad as Tom Paul's and he's got ten years on me! Oh well, I went to college in the 70s and did more brain cell damage than he did in the 60s

« **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:03:29 PM »

Last time I visited both #4 and #13 at Pacific Dunes were still pretty straight and both also pretty darn good golf holes.

« **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:18:59 PM »

How about every hole at the Old Course?

« **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:24:09 PM »

Maybe he means a golf hole must be gay to be good?

« **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:36:33 PM »

Quote from: tommy Williamsen on March 12, 2006, 05:44:44 PM

18 at TOC is pretty exciting as well.

You play #18 on The Old Course straight for the green? The road to the right doesn't concern you?

Sometimes whether a hole is straight or not changes depending on your confidence in playing the shots.

« **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:39:43 PM »

#18 TOC is not a dogleg although you might want to play it like one! It's never good to hit one into those buildings on the right side.

« **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:18:54 PM »

18 at Olympic Lake ... but it isn't flat ...

« **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:58:00 PM »

I like #9 and #10 at Pebble Beach. Good contoured fairways, reasonably long with small greens.

« **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2006, 10:02:34 PM »

Tommy:

Every hole is straight, if you're long enough to play straight for the green.

« **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2006, 10:23:02 PM »

Tom, unfortunately for me these days even some of the longer par threes are doglegs. ie 16 at Cypress Point

« **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2006, 01:43:20 AM »

Quote from: Wayne Morrison on March 12, 2006, 06:29:07 PM

Oh well, I went to college in the 70s and did more brain cell damage than he did in the 60s

Staying up late, reading by flashlight under the covers after the library closes, will do that!

« **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2006, 01:50:25 AM »

I've mentioned before that I like #13 at Stanford GC as an example of a good, straight and flat (probably very slightly downhill) hole.

« **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2006, 02:13:07 AM »

With the most neutral 1/2 knuckle left-hand grip possible, Miller's mind lapses into the same neutral gear from time to time - surely he's made a hash of the TOC opener at some stage? And overly "cute" or "safe" play leads to untold bogies at the seemingly easy TOC 18th.

The same guy is bright, too, so don't be surprised if he's just putting this one out to spark a reaction. Like his unfortunate comment about Craig Parry, he knows what sells.

The opening hole at Royal Melbourne West is a fantastic straight hole.

« **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2006, 03:07:43 AM »

#2 Talking Stick-North.....A Brilliant Straight Hole.

« **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:51:44 AM »

Wayne

You forgot #2 and #10 (Even though trees have changed it) at Lehigh,

shame on you. #14 is also straight. Perhaps 3 of the 4 or 5 best holes there.

Tilted or lumpy fairways help make a great straight hole.

Tommy, errrrr Thomas - can you possibly think of another architect?

« **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:18:00 AM »

BillV,

Forgive me, I was only thinking of top-tier Flynn's

You're right about 2, that's a great straight par 4 a direct result of a great green and fairway contours. 14 is also straight. I'd say 10 has a slight dogleg left, don't you think?

« **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2006, 10:44:30 AM »

#5 at Palmetto (the Palmetto hole) is a great straight hole. 455 yds off elevated tee with significant right to left fairway slope and tough green. Straight as an arrow though.

« **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2006, 02:22:52 PM »

"...err...umm... how about every great par 3 in the world?

Shivas:

That is really funny---congratulations!

Have you ever seen a dogleg (or cape) par 3?

Don't forget Riviera's #10. That's basically a flat open field. And because it is it just may be one of the finest examples of the functional effect of incredibly good "architectural design".

« **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2006, 04:09:21 PM »

Quote from: Wayne Morrison on March 13, 2006, 10:18:00 AM

BillV,
I'd say 10 has a slight dogleg left, don't you think?

10 is pretty straight*

It plays as more of one today than it is/was because

-the trees are out of control on the left
-the fairway moves hard left to right
-mowing (because of the first comment) has shifted the fairway to the. The wimmen who often play it as a three shotter often set up to approach from inside 100 yds from left of the midline boooonker.

That is a great line of approach from the left, not allowed due to the tweez

*The hole (#10 ) is drawn straight on the original full routing plan and the 1941 "George Leh ACE on #7" photo shows it to be straight.

Quote from: tommy Williamsen on March 12, 2006, 05:44:44 PM

I was struck by a an off hand comment that Johnny Miller made. It was to the effect that there really are no good straight holes, except maybe 18 at Oakmont.

Johnny Miller is unfortunately full of merde too often on his architectural comments.

« **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2006, 05:50:29 PM »

The 10th at Yale. Straight up the hill. The same can be said for the 17th at Yale, although the second shot is level on the 17th.

Johnny's style is entertaining but he really does shoot from the lip sometimes. No accident he picked a hole where he won the US Open.

« **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2006, 06:03:07 PM »

The 1st, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and 14th are all pretty great holes at Oakmont that are reasonably straight. 1, 10, and 12 are certainly outstanding holes.

Kinda funny Johnny would overlook the rest of Oakmont, besides the 18th.

As for some of the other holes mentioned, how many have angled greens? I've always thought that was a big plus.

« **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2006, 06:03:48 PM »

6 at Stonewall (Old). I love that hole.

News:

Tommy Williamsen

wsmorrison

Gene Greco

wsmorrison

Tim Bert

Bill_McBride

Forrest Richardson

Tim MacEachern

Bill_McBride

Mike Benham

Steve Pieracci

Tom_Doak

Tommy Williamsen

Jim Nugent

John Kirk

Paul_Daley

Tommy_Naccarato

redanman

wsmorrison

John Shimp

TEPaul

redanman

Phil Benedict

George Pazin

Sean Leary

An Error Has Occurred!