......unless you play a good one that gives you something to think about on your second shot, like Plainfield's 16th.

Ross placed these cross bunkers on the ridge that bisects the 16th fairway 200 yards from the green. Such bunkers pressure the golfer to execute on both his 1st and 2nd shots, a trait found wanting with many modern three shotters.- Ran

probably been beaten to death alaready here, but I wonder if this is the hardest type of hole for architects to design, is such generalizations can be made

I tend to like 3 shot par 5's providing they are set up to challenge your second shot.

First, I think there has to be an immediate challenge of some sort which is on play on your second shot. This keeps you from being sloppy in advancing the ball. I agree in that a straight ahead, down the fairway second, on an unreachable par 5 is very dull.

Second, I think the green complex needs to be set up in a fashion that forces you to plan the strategy of your second shot. A pin placement that can reasonably be approached from one side of the fairway and not the other etc. Or false fronts or drops off the back that can impact the angle of play.

If executed well I find it thrilling to have linked together 4 or 5 shots on a hole that could easily produce far worse scores.

On the other hand. I find 2 shot par 5's that are too easily had to be dull as well. A long par 4 is a challenge because you must land your long approach and then hole out in two. A short par 5 plays the same but gives you an extra stroke to finish out. I don't feel the reward as much in those cases.

 Michael,

   What is it about #4 at Merion that you find interesting?

#4 at Bethpage Black is a 3 shotter and it is one of the most exciting holes I've ever played. And I agree with what many have posted above . . .
the challenging nature of the 2nd shot has a lot to do with its appeal.

-Ted

Michael,

   Thanks for your response. I find the blind shots at Merion to be a weakness. So often ending up in the rough is the most likely outcome. Once may be okay but four or five times is boring. I prefer the second shot where I can visualize my problems and decide what to do.

MM
Ah there lies the difference between us..I admire the use of blind shots as a form of illusion that you have to negotiate..not on every hole, but I think Merion has got it just about right .
The semi blind tee shot on 11 transforms a nothing tee shot into one of anxiety, especially knowing that the fairway has to be hit to negotiate the creek...similar applies to the tee shot on #16.

It is probably down to growing up playing links golf.

Yeah you are right nothing semi about it at all........
My guess would be that 11 used to be wider, 4 I think not and seven..you mean there is a fairway on that hole?

The ones that immediately came to my mind are #18 at Yale and #9 at TPC-Sawgrass.  Like them or not, they are definitely not boring!

I would nominate the 8th at LACC as one the best 3 shot par fives I have ever played.  Certainly not dull by any means!!

Pat,

The second at Shadow Ridge has bunkers along the left side of the fairway off the tee that need to be avoided.  The right side of is pretty open.  I don't see much of an advantage of playing close to the trouble off the tee because the second is a lay up no matter where you are (unless you're Bubba Watson).  On the second shot there is a lake all down the right side so the inclination is to favor the left side.  The lake is penal rather than strategic since there is no real advantage to be gained by flirting with it in terms of angle.  The last day I played the hole I hit a mediocre drive to the right; mediocre 4-iron into the left rough and a good 7-iron (from 160) to fifteen feet and two-putted.

The 11th at PGA West is altogether a different type of hole.  The landing area for the drive is pretty narrow with fairway bunkers left and right.  Target golf.  For the second shot, there is a huge slope from right to left that comes into play from at least 150 yards in and water on the left maybe 50 yards from the green.  Its really hard to land your layup shot far enough to the right to keep it in the fairway.  I was 280 yards away on my second shot and layed up with a 4-iron which kicked into the grass bunker left of the fairway (into a deep divot, I might add).  In retrospect, I would probably have hit a three-wood from the same position to leave as short an approach as possible, because in all likelihood the ball is going to kick left off the fairway wherever you hit it.

This is probably more information than you bargained for.  BTW, these are both neat but very different courses.  Shadow Ridge has tremendously wide fairways and lots of interesting angles,whereas PGA West is target golf all the way with visual illusion a major theme.  In other words, the target is generally pretty small and the proper line is hard to identify.