[Brian Gracely]

I noticed several on here were clamouring for CPC to be returned to the AT&T rota, because, well..it's CPC.  So let's say that happened.  What would need to happen, or better yet, what would happen? (ignoring the "membership diversity" issues now required by PGA Tour)

Keep in mind a few things...

- If CPC returned, the networks would surely want to provide
 ample amount of TV coverage (unlike Poppy Hills), since it is a
 Top 5 course and has those two holes (#15-16) that lots of
 people have pictures of in their offices.

- CPC plays about 6500yds from the back tees

- CPC has limited room for spectators, especially if you want to
 keep them off private property (#2), natural areas (#2, 12),
 dunes (#7, 8, 9) or away from the clubhouse (#17).


Would the PGA Tour make it play as a Par 68-69, considering that all Par5s are easily reachable in two?

Where would the PGA Tour have trees added?  

Would / could any holes be lengthed?

Would the PGA Tour consider limited spectator access (<5000 people), handheld cameras only, and extensive coverage via overhead blimp?  

[redanman]

Let us hope that this never happens?

Financially, doesn't the Pebble Beach Company NOW want to keep it all within their own aegis?

[Tom Zeni]

CP's widely known exclusivity limits the possibilities.

Then, let me say that to this day, during the week of Pebble, the pro's don't go to Pebble to practice, but to Cypress.

Since there would be stark resistance to lengthening holes, the choices would be to reduce the score of par by one or two strokes, increase camera coverage, but limit the number of spectators to a miniscule amount. In short, be as non-evasive as possible.

As to reducing "par," even if they left it at it's current number, everyone gets to play it, so it is what it is. It's everyone's opportunity to go low.

[Bob_Huntley]

Brian,

It will never happen.

The PGA would not and could not, dictate to the Club about their need for trees etc.

Could you imagine Jesse Jackson et al croaking about exclusionary policies?

My own feeling is that as short as it is, the Club would welcome another Walker Cup.

It is no secret that the A.T.&T. Pro-Am honchos have been sending out feelers to the MPCC Board to have one of their courses come back into the rotation. My vote would be NAY.


Bob

[Tom Zeni]

Bob,

When I was last there, the Shore course was under renovation. Has it been completed?

[A_Clay_Man]

Bob, Would you change your vote if there was an opportunity to focus whats' considered fluff covergae on Mike's work and the inherent importance of GCA as an art?

[Brad Klein]

Shore Course at MPCC is done and now simply brilliant. But there's no way those courses - MPCC, Spanish Bay, CPC - can have an event with spectators. Memberships issues aside, and relative brevity of golf course aside as well, the ecological sensitivity of those sites with their dunes and dunes grasses would never pass muster with the regulatory boards in terms of allowing spectators and traffic. And that's great. Those places, esp. CPC, don't need events.

[Bob_Huntley]

Brad,

Amen.

Bob

[A_Clay_Man]

Same dunes at Spy

[ForkaB]

I used to watch them play at CPC in the late 70s- early 80's, and there was never a crowd problem--even sitting above the 16th tee with a large cooler full of shooters.  Surely out in the dune areas it would have been deserted.  Have things changed THAT much since then?

[Brad Klein]

The "same dunes" at Spyglass are only on holes 2-4, and traffic is kept off the ocean side of them and relegated to the higher sides. CPC, Spanmish Bay and MPCC-Shore are generally on much lower lying land adjacent to the shoreline with many more diverse dunes grasses, mosses and fragile plants.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bob, Would you change your vote if there was an opportunity to focus whats' considered fluff covergae on Mike's work and the inherent importance of GCA as an art?

Adam, that's not the way it works.

Once the camel has its nose in the tent, it only goes downhill from their.[/color]

Bob,

Good for you, stick to your guns.

[Gene Greco]

I used to watch them play at CPC in the late 70s- early 80's, and there was never a crowd problem--even sitting above the 16th tee with a large cooler full of shooters.  Surely out in the dune areas it would have been deserted.  Have things changed THAT much since then?

  Bing's Clambake was held at Cypress Point as he was a member and simply invited a "few" friends.

The AT&T will never return to those halcion days on the Monterey Peninsula.

However, one can dream...I wouldn't leave the TV room for a minute during the entire telecast just to watch any moment showing action on the most beautiful golf course in the world.

Actually, I do that now just to gaze at the majesty which is Pebble Beach!

[A_Clay_Man]

Thats very understandable Pat, Thanx.

Brad, The iceplant that is dominate is still there isnt it?
It's more destructive than a throng of golfers.
Where is the logic in these enviro considerations?

[Brad Klein]

Adam, that's not fair of you. You want me to defend the logic of CCC rulings? I just point to them, I can't always justify them, though I am certain they are concerned with more than iceplant and with some plants that are very fragile.

Remember, for years, "rare" Canada Geese have been protected as endangered, and now they number about 40 million and crap over every golf course in the northeast.

Better yet (i.e. worse yet), wetlands "fragmities" were protected, and they do nothing but desiccate wetlands and kill them.

My original point still stands: CPC, MPCC and Spanish Bay would be idiotic to hold big tournaments. There's no gain for them at all. If you want to see these places, play them or walk them. And by the way, for those of you who would like to walk them, they allow you to, when you ask politely. A few hours spent walking CPC make for one of the most enjoyable strolls in the world, regardless whether you are playing golf.

[ForkaB]

I used to watch them play at CPC in the late 70s- early 80's, and there was never a crowd problem--even sitting above the 16th tee with a large cooler full of shooters.  Surely out in the dune areas it would have been deserted.  Have things changed THAT much since then?

  Bing's Clambake was held at Cypress Point as he was a member and simply invited a "few" friends.

The AT&T will never return to those halcion days on the Monterey Peninsula.

However, one can dream...I wouldn't leave the TV room for a minute during the entire telecast just to watch any moment showing action on the most beautiful golf course in the world.

Actually, I do that now just to gaze at the majesty which is Pebble Beach!

Gene

Der Bingle was deid by 1977 (about when I starting going to the clambake), and the Crosby continued at CPC until the Shoal Creek brouhaha (~1990).  CPC doesn't want to get back into the rota, but I suspect it is much less related to the protection of species of dune grasses or burrowing animals than it is to the protection of the Constitutional rights of "Free Assocation" for wasps.....

[Robert Thompson]

In my experience at the tournament on a Friday, 90% of the spectators are at Pebble anyway. I'm not saying that wouldn't change if CPC were part of the rotation, but right now hardly anyone leaves Pebble. The year Tiger won the AT&T, I walked at Spyglass with Vijay Singh playing behind Phil Mickelson and Fred Couples and there were no more than a dozen fans following both groups.

[Bob_Huntley]

Brian,

It will never happen.

Bob,

I'm well aware of that.  It's the same argument about having an event at Seminole or Pine Valley.  

I was just wanting the folks on the board that feel that the PGA Tour owes them something on TV to better understand the details behind why it won't ever happen.  

Brian,

I doubt that the PGA feels it owes anything for better viewing, have yo

Bobu seen some of their own creations?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

It would have to be much longer or they would have to grow hay in the rough to make the guys hit irons off the tee.

[Bob_Huntley]

I think I mentioned this sometime last year.

Daniel Chopra hit a three wood off of the back tee at the Ninth at CPC, to a pin on the upper left part of the green. It finished ten feet away.

This is a course for Walker Cuppers in match play events.

Bob

[Tim Gavrich]

I think I mentioned this sometime last year.

Daniel Chopra hit a three wood off of the back tee at the Ninth at CPC, to a pin on the upper left part of the green. It finished ten feet away.

This is a course for Walker Cuppers in match play events.

Bob

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why events like the Ryder, Presidents', Solheim, and Walker Cups are the most fun to watch, typically.  Par doesn't matter in match play.  No one would complain about inordinately low scores.  For this reason, I agree with Mr. Huntley's statement.  Although I've never seen or played CPC, it seems that nowadays, nearly every golf course under 6700 yards is too short for stroke play events.  Heck, I'd love to see a U.S. Open at Pine Valley, but I know it will never happen.

I must say that I did not have a whole lot of fun watching the end of the golf tournament today.  Sure, the setting is breathtaking, but the course was set up in such a way that there wasn't much drama at the end.  Not many birdie opportunities, and the fact that only 12 people hit the 12th green in regulation says something about the 'fairness' (I wince as I use that word). of the setup.  But perhaps that's just me.

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